Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Think you couldn't end up homeless? Think again.........
Could your financial future be at risk without you even knowing it? Join us on this episode of the Why Smart Women podcast as we unpack the unsettling reality of financial insecurity facing women in retirement, spotlighting the superannuation challenges in Australia. We're joined by Pascal Helya-Moray, author of "Rich Woman, Poor Woman," who offers striking insights into how one in six women retire into poverty, with the situation worsening for single women. Together, we scrutinize how systemic flaws like the late introduction of superannuation in 1992 and ingrained gender roles have left many women financially vulnerable, often leading to unexpected hardships like homelessnes
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It's why dieting is so hard, it's why saving is so hard, it's why exercising is so hard, because when we think about ourselves in the future, the part of our brain that fires off is the same part of our brain that we use when we think about strangers. You are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though. I did go through some shockers to find him, and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be, aboriginal land.
Speaker 1:So hello everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of why Smart Women. So this week I'm going to be interviewing Pascal Heliamore and we're going to be talking about superannuation. Now, before you hit the pause button or just decide that this you're not going to listen to this week's episode, stick with it, please stick with it, because I've read her book, which is called Rich Woman, poor Woman, and I fell into a deep well of despondency and had to lay down under the duna for quite a long time to recover from it, and I would like to save my listeners from this fate. So stay tuned and listen, because actually we all need to understand superannuation. So, hello Pascal, hello Annie, thank you for having me my absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:Your name Pascal Heliomore really does, I don't know, seem like somebody who's more going to write a book on Italian Renaissance art or something?
Speaker 2:doesn't it?
Speaker 1:That's the next one, yeah, okay so they're sort of similar, aren't they? And yet you decided to write a book on women. Yes, and superannuation.
Speaker 2:I know. And why did you do this? Oh, because I was looking for a cure for insomnia. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm kidding Because I think that we have one in six women who retires into poverty in Australia. One in six. And God help you if you're single, because that number becomes one in six women who retires into poverty in Australia.
Speaker 1:One in six, and God help you if you're single, because that number becomes one in three.
Speaker 2:Those stats, are just mind-bogglingly awful. Yes, they're mind-boggling because it's such a high ratio one in three. But also, how do we as a population, how do we not know these numbers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess it's that notion, isn't it, I think, because we do know that the highest proportion of homelessness is in middle-aged women, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:And so is it something to do with the fact that middle-aged women, everybody, all listeners please excuse any noise in the background, because we have three dogs here today and they're having a lovely time so is it because middle-aged women and their concerns and their outcomes are invisible to us as a society? I mean, what's going on? That's terrible.
Speaker 2:So the reason that the older woman, the older Australian woman, is at the pointy end of business, shall we say, when it comes to superannuation, is because superannuation was introduced in 1992. By Keating, by Keating, and so here we are 30 years on, or a little more, but at the time that woman was probably in the workforce.
Speaker 1:The one that's homeless now, the one that's homeless now.
Speaker 2:She left the workforce to have children. Yeah, she'd heard about this thing called superannuation being introduced, perhaps, but she hadn't accrued any, or she hadn't you know, or hadn't accrued much before she left the workforce. Yeah, she's stepped out to have children. Hubby has said don't worry about your super.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to look after you, yeah, and everything is fine until it isn't that's right, yeah, and so in the marital breakdown, which is likely Aquarianus she has nothing to fall back on. So he's walked away with a super balance and maybe she's walked away with a house. Maybe, maybe, but the house doesn't pay the bills.
Speaker 1:No, the house does not. No, it's not liquid.
Speaker 2:And essentially she hasn't been given the opportunity at all to provision for her retirement.
Speaker 1:So this has happened. A friend of mine, a friend of mine's friend, who was a teacher yes, and she's in her early 60s. Yes, three children, and she exactly fits that narrative. She's now living in a car, Right, she had a perfectly reasonable middle class life, yes, and now at 60, after all that raising children taking time out from her career.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I think that's what's happened. She's now living in a car and it's devastating for her. And this isn't what you're saying. It's how we get into these awful, invidious situations that we can't get out of right Exactly.
Speaker 2:And I mean, had you rewound 30 years ago and said this is you know, and projected and shown her her future, she would have said no way, jose, you know this is just not going to happen to me, but because of a number of systemic deficiencies so we have, and particularly for women when it comes to their superannuation. You know there are three key reasons why women retire, even in the best of outcomes. So, putting aside any marital issues or whatever, but even in the best of situations, women retire with, anything like you know, a third to a half less than men, because of three key factors.
Speaker 1:Number one the gender pay gap, which is at what now? 17%.
Speaker 2:last time I looked yes, but if you factor in bonuses, overtime et cetera, that number is actually closer to 23%. Whoa really, I know that's nearly a quarter. I know, I know, I know. Oh my God, that just makes me want to Whoa. I know, I know.
Speaker 1:That's nearly a quarter. I know, I know, I know. Oh my God, that just makes me want to scream.
Speaker 2:Go on the second reason is because of time out of the workforce. Yeah, so your friend's friend, she would have stepped out of the workforce three times to have three children. Ah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, so during those.
Speaker 2:Let's say she was out for two, maybe three years per child. Yeah, well, that's six or nine years in which she was not being paid super because she was not earning an income, right? And she was not being paid superannuation. So she has either, you know, a six-year or a nine-year deficiency in her superannuation. Which her husband doesn't have Right because he worked all the way through. That's right and was earning at a man's rates.
Speaker 1:So what about paternity leave now? Is that going to address that to some degree?
Speaker 2:Indeed, but if I can just quickly touch on the third systemic deficiency, which is the type of work that women do, now, what I mean by this is that if you think about the 7 million women in Australia who are aged between 18 and 65, so that superannuation accumulation phase of their lives 40%, 4-0% of them are not in the paid workforce, which is a huge number, and then if you think of the remaining 60%, at any given time are not in the paid workforce, and then of the 60%… You're killing me with these stats, pascal, I'm sorry, sorry.
Speaker 2:Do I need to prop you up?
Speaker 1:You actually do. It's Tuesday and I don't drink on a Tuesday, but I certainly feel like having a glass of wine.
Speaker 2:You're ruining my routine. I'm harshing a buzz. And of the 60% of women in that age group who are in the workforce, guess what? Most are working part-time.
Speaker 1:Because of the children issue.
Speaker 2:Correct because they have domestic responsibilities and work. So all of these factors combined gender pay gap, time out of the workforce when you're not earning superannuation. And working part-time, where you earn super fractionally, if you're working at all these are the reasons why women end up with anywhere between a third to a half as much super as a man their age.
Speaker 1:So it's so systemic, isn't it it?
Speaker 2:is absolutely systemic, and so now jumping back to your question around superannuation now being paid on parental leave. Yes, this is one of the new measures introduced by the current government, and I say hip, hip, hooray, because it's these sorts of measures that are actually going to help plug the gender super gap.
Speaker 1:It's just devastating, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so hidden, hidden.
Speaker 2:Hidden, absolutely. But also what's fascinating is that the homeless women are also hidden Totally. And homelessness for women, for older women, is not experienced in the same way that it is for men.
Speaker 1:Can you unpack that for me?
Speaker 2:So if we think of homeless people, we typically….
Speaker 1:On the street Pitt Street Mall.
Speaker 2:Right Pitt Street Mall or on William Street.
Speaker 1:With a thing and a sign. Exactly, help me blah blah blah, Help me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're typically male. Yeah, but we rarely see homeless women looking like that, and that's because homelessness for them presents differently. They don't want to be so exposed. I mean, there's a security issue, there's a safety issue, 100%.
Speaker 1:They're much more vulnerable, are they not Exactly so?
Speaker 2:the homeless women. They tend to either be permanently couch surfing or living in a van or, you know, just constantly staying with friends. So it's a lot more. You know, there's a pride around it. Yeah, of course, and also safety, because they understand how vulnerable they are physically and they don't want any trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking that you would imagine that one's children would intervene in this process. But of course, one's children. I have two children, 27 and 31. They're still around, they're very nice human beings, but they go away, right. I mean, I have two children 27, 31. They're still around, they're very nice human beings, but they go away, right. I mean, they have their own lives. They go to New York and get a job or do something.
Speaker 2:That's right and, as a parent, you don't want to be the one cramping their style or being a burden or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:No, of course you don't, do you? How embarrassing, yes, do you? How embarrassing, yes, it makes me feel embarrassed thinking about it, that I would be in that. Excuse me for a second, harry, can you just make sure that Ryder isn't haranguing Dusty, dusty's adorable listeners? If you could see Dusty, you'd think that Ryder, my big girdle, was a big bully. He's a bit of a bully, isn't he? He's snappish. He's quite large, ryder. He's over 30 kilos. Yeah, he is large. We're moving into an apartment and I'm just really hoping that when are you going to put him? I don't know, in the closet, okay, just sedate him On the bike rack. No, downstairs.
Speaker 2:In the car park, I don't know, I'm not sure he can be in the apartment block guard dog. Yeah, he'd be really good at that. He'd be great at that.
Speaker 1:I think we're just kind of a job, A job for him, and he won't end up homeless. So that's good. So this notion of. I guess there's also big cognitive biases in our structural, societal approach to it and also in our brains to the degree to which we consider our futures. Would you agree with that as well?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because none of us would ever imagine we would end up that way, not in a million years right. And none of us, particularly if we're women and we know that we're I use the word in inverted commas expected to look after family members.
Speaker 1:Well, we're socialised in that direction, are we not?
Speaker 2:Exactly. None of us would think that, after a lifetime spent caring for others, that our thanks would be shown in the form of homelessness. And there's also.
Speaker 1:I think it's very much sad, a very tangible sense of like why hasn't somebody fixed this? Right, yeah, because it's not. It's not well, it's hidden yes and you can't fix something that's not you know.
Speaker 2:That's right, exactly right.
Speaker 1:In evidence, can you that's right?
Speaker 2:So it's very, it's a perfectly wicked problem is how I like to think of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is, and I know for myself that me thinking about myself in the future has always just been a big missing part of my brain. I'm an actor by trade and there is a certain immediacy, I think.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, you're being told to live in the here and now. 100% exactly in that creative process.
Speaker 1:It's very immediate and I think most actors are sort of used to that hand-to-mouth existence and I certainly was in that until my 40s and I think to some degree that infiltrated my thinking about myself in the future. But I do know that there's a big cognitive bias in that when we think about ourselves in the future, which is why dieting is so hard, it's why saving is so hard, it's why exercising is so hard. Yes, because when we think about ourselves in the future, the part of our brain that fires off is the same part of our brain that we use when we think about strangers. So it's almost like Stranger danger, stranger danger. I'm like, well, I'd really like to eat you know that biscuit. And then your brain goes well, do it because it doesn't matter, because it's not you anyway.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:It's going to be somebody else's problem tomorrow, yes, and then you wake up. That's not true it was actually your problem.
Speaker 2:It was your problem and it remains your problem. It remains your problem.
Speaker 1:So that's why people go. Well, you know you've got to use willpower when it comes to saving. You've got to use willpower when it comes to diet. You've got to use willpower when it comes to exercise. And we know that willpower is a terrible master. Yeah, it's. The only thing that helps us is building in habits, and external habits like super are just immensely helpful, exactly and as you would read in the book.
Speaker 2:You know, creating habits and particularly my favorite automatic habits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% favorite automatic habits where you can.
Speaker 2:You don't have to think, you don't have to decide. Oh, what am I going to do with this? Spare 100 or whatever? Just take the choice away from yourself, because left to your own devices, yeah, you will not make present you. Yeah will not make the right choice but if you have mechanisms in place and I've outlined them in the book on how you can produce, set and forget strategies and remove the temptation to spend money rather than tip it into your super then you're setting yourself up for super success, Because super is compounding Exactly.
Speaker 1:Can you explain what that is, please?
Speaker 2:Compounding is where the interest let's say you have $100 and the interest is 10%. So, after one year you have $110. Yeah, now that will grow by 10% the next year, let's say so. That's all of a sudden we're now at $121. Oh, got it Right the point is that it's growing by itself.
Speaker 1:You don't have to think about it. That's right. You don't have to go down to the bank. You don't have to do a deposit.
Speaker 2:Exactly it takes the choice away from your brain Correct, but it's also in the long run. You know that compound interest is this incredibly magnifying effect. Einstein called it the eighth wonder of the world, and he wasn't wrong. Dollar, your five, your ten dollars here can become worth so much more in the long run without you having to take extra action to get it there. Of course, in my book I advocate add all the money to your super. You can but the effect of compound interest and just having that hundred dollars become the 110, become the 121, et cetera, et cetera, over a period of 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years is absolutely incredible and I encourage everyone and all of the listeners to jump onto the Money Smart website.
Speaker 1:Money Smart website. We'll put this in the show notes, everybody.
Speaker 2:Yes please govau and just play with the compound interest calculator, because it is a real eye-opener.
Speaker 1:Will it be inspiring?
Speaker 2:It is inspiring and all of a sudden you can see that the $50 per week you're putting into your super or whatever it might be, all of a sudden has this magnificent ballooning effect on the end balance. And that is. It almost becomes like a game. It's like oh well, what if I put in $75 a week? What if I put in $100 a week? And you can just see the impacts in the long run.
Speaker 1:See, now I have read your book. And then I had to lay down for a number of hours with a cool cloth on my head just to get over the shock of my misspent 30 years. I did say to myself at that point it may be a little bit late for me, but it is not too late for the generation coming after us.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And I would really like to be part of the messaging around.
Speaker 2:You have to take this seriously and this could save your life, because it actually could, because none of us, as we said at the beginning of this, can see ourselves in the future accurately no no, we cannot imagine a future where we're not sitting pretty exactly, exactly and and I think what um and I know we've spoken about this previously and you said to me that your attitude or your cognitive dissonance regarding your super was that it's forced and that is so completely you know the antithesis of how you are in your career and master and choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:And then we had a lovely mic drop moment where I said but Annie's super and having a super strong balance, it gives you choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was a bit of a moment, wasn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:it was a bit of a moment because it is true, we do have cognitive dissonance and I think there is that thing about don't tell me what to do. Absolutely I don't want to be told what to do. I want to live my life the way I want to live it, on my terms, on my terms. Well, if I want to live my life the way I want to live my life, then I need financial freedom to do that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And the notion that you know money doesn't make you happy. Well, no, it doesn't, but having none certainly makes you very unhappy, Very unhappy. Exactly it is a terrible situation to be in.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and.
Speaker 1:I do want freedom. I do want the freedom to do what I want, to go on a trip, to buy what I want.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, to live. As I said, we've just sold and downsized to an apartment and so which is awesome and I'll now be 800 metres from the beach and I'm sort of looking at this future where I can sort of do what I want, but I won't be able to do what I want if I'm not financially secure.
Speaker 2:No, no, exactly. Yeah, and I think people and maybe I'm not sure if women more so than men, but people generally have this idea that super, is this thing separate to them? You know, they've siloed it, it is something that is divorced from their everyday life.
Speaker 1:But actually nothing could be further from the truth. No, clearly not. It's integral.
Speaker 2:It's integral and every time like you think about when you start a new job, or maybe you finish a job, or you know there's birth of a new child, or there's a marriage or divorce, or selling a home. All of these things interact with your super in some way, shape or form, and so I think, as a nation, we need to start understanding that superannuation is not a monster. Superannuation needs to be our best friend 100%.
Speaker 1:What a monster. Superannuation needs to be our best friend. A hundred percent. It needs the biggest, biggest reframe from where it is at the moment. I know, and that book did that for me. It forced me into a reframe because we have very, very intuitive responses to things that make us uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And women especially, are sold the message that your intuition can be trusted. You can feel it in your waters. Now I feel all sorts of things in my waters.
Speaker 1:I have all sorts of intuitive responses to things and they're dead wrong. And it was only when I began investigating critical thinking that I realized that that idea of the intuition is king is not right, correct, because my intuition around superannuation is 100% wrong. So if I had listened to that, well then I'd be in a worse position than I'm in now, and well then I'd be in a worse position than I'm in now. And I think, for all the women out there that do consider themselves smart, do watch your intuitive response to this notion of being forced into super, because it can actually provide you with this astonishing future, and if you ignore it and don't nurture it, then it just won't right.
Speaker 2:Well, how can it? You've not given it a chance? Yeah, so it is about nurturing your super, and also I think there's a reticence amongst people to contribute extra to their super. Right, but as women, we are behind the eight ball from the world.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yeah, yeah, because of those systemic deficiencies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah earlier. So, ladies, just just add as much as you can do it, do it, ladies, do it because, guess what, there is no downside, there's no downside and I have too much super said no one ever.
Speaker 1:No one ever in the whole world, no one ever has said that.
Speaker 2:So really better. You know, the system was not designed for us. We need to work hard.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:To overcome those systemic deficiencies.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Because I for one do not want to see you, you know, homeless in an, you know, you know, some years time no, I don't want that.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't think I'd like that very much. I tell you, the problem I've currently got, which is sort of relevant, is that we are out in the sticks here in alambi heights, and so david and I will have a bottle of wine at night between us, and then um and then I'll, we'd like one more glass, but to get that glass of wine we'd have to get in the car and drive up to the bottle shop. Or sometimes I want chocolate, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I want that.
Speaker 1:Anyway, now we're moving into an apartment that is literally above the bottle shop and above Woolies. Okay, okay, and it brings this back to this notion of will and availability to spending. It's sort of the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I said to him last night I had quite a long and boring discussion. He's like oh my God, we've already bought it. Can you stop banging on about all the worst in the bottle shop? But the availability of wine and I know what's going to happen is that we will have to utilise our willpower right, because at the moment there's an intervention right.
Speaker 2:It's an interrupted journey, right, but now it's not. So that's exactly right.
Speaker 1:So in a way it is sort of like super, isn't it? Don't you think yes, because at the moment it's like there is something between me and spending correct right, and that is the car journey.
Speaker 2:You can't interfere with its progress. But now you are going to be able to. Yes, but now I can spend.
Speaker 1:Yes, great ease, I can go down there and it will. I don't want to be drinking all the time and I don't want to be eating chocolate and possibly Tim Tams. I don't want that. But it's exactly the same principle, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah. So what are your strategies going to? Be, I think you have to come up with some strategies.
Speaker 1:Around, not Distracting yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, so when you start thinking about the bottle of wine, maybe that's your cue to go for a walk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Or the Tim Tams are calling and you're like, oh, I'm going to run a bath, anything to stop.
Speaker 1:Intervene in the cognitive process. Correct, because we know that desiring things like spending money that's right, like having some chocolate or something that maybe you shouldn't have every night of the week, or drinking more wine, is in the emotional part of the brain, exactly. So we have to use the prefrontal cortex to intervene in that.
Speaker 2:That's right. The good old executive decision making center, that's right.
Speaker 1:So that is the strategy that I'm going to employ, because David and I are both trained in acceptance, commitment therapy, and what they do is that you don't argue with the voice that you don't like, you just accept it, so put it on a leaf, send it down the stream. Yes, put that thought on a leaf, send it away. Do something that's aligned with your values, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So otherwise you get into this limbic system battle where I want a Tim Tam. You shouldn't have a Tim Tam, but I really want one. Why shouldn't I? I went to the gym this morning and now I'm really tired. I'd like a bit of chocolate and it's just downstairs, right that arguing? That is exactly what happens in my brain.
Speaker 2:I know you have just articulated my chocolate Right Internal chocolate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been to the gym, I'm tired.
Speaker 2:Shouldn't I Big day at work? Big day, yes, exhausted why?
Speaker 1:shouldn't I have some sugar?
Speaker 2:Yep Right, yeah, or the kids are eating them. Yep, why shouldn't I have it?
Speaker 1:And I don't mean to say women that are listening that we are not to ever eat chocolate, or sugar. No, not at all.
Speaker 2:I'm just talking about as a nightly occurrence. It's probably not ideal. No, that day that's probably on the high side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is probably unnecessary, but that notion of, rather than arguing with that part of your brain, because the notion is that probably it's going to win if you're involved in a battle with the limbic system, with the emotional part of the brain, whereas if you just go, there's that thought, acknowledge the thought, send it, I put it, I send it on its way, I have it almost incorporated into my being, because it's just a thought send it, I put it, I send it on its way.
Speaker 1:I have it, yes, almost incorporated into my being, because it's just a thought.
Speaker 2:It hasn't got any power.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then out of your value system or the way you want to live your life. Do something, yes, and that's the action part, which is, as you say, go for a walk, have a bath, have a bath. Phone a friend Friend. Yes, yep, can I phone you, pascal? Anytime, annie, is that?
Speaker 2:all right Anytime, of course, because Woolies is open. I think we're really late, okay, but, annie, what do I say on the phone to you if I hear the cashier say that's $9.95, thanks, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll probably lie to you at that point.
Speaker 2:Oh no, no, I'm not at Woolies, I'm at Baker's Delight. Yeah, but Annie, it's 7.30 at night, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am pretty good. I am actually a pretty good actor. I'm pretty good at lying, I'm quite quick on my feet, so you've got to really watch out for that. Okay, okay, I need to phone you early into the lift.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's only two floors down. Oh wow, I know it's quite bad, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's quite a bad outcome.
Speaker 2:I mean perfect in so many ways.
Speaker 1:Perfect and yet, and a wine bar just around the corner, anyway, it's going to be great. So back to this notion. Is there anything else we need to say about superannuation? Or do you think, because I really want to make a difference in this space because I think it could be saving women a lot of future pain- yes, I think the most dangerous gap really of the gender pay gap and the gender super gap is the knowledge gap.
Speaker 2:We touched on this earlier. It's the fact that so many people, women particularly, are not aware of it. So my counsel, I suppose, would be to anyone, any listener who reads the book, would be to tell your girlfriends, to tell your sister, tell your cousin, your whoever, tell your masseuse I really don don't care but tell them what you've learned through the book, just to raise the awareness of the issue. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So, all the women out there that are listening, we have to lift each other up. This is what it is to be a female in 2024, especially after the absolute disaster that happened in America last week, which we're not going to go into because we'll all fall into it.
Speaker 2:We're all very sad.
Speaker 1:We're all very sad and very depressed about it. Read the book, listen to this podcast, read the book, investigate your super and tell your friends because, come 30 years, trust me, you do not know what your future will bring. None of us do so. Let's do each other a favor. Let's bring superannuation out of the darkness and into the light and make it sexy Like a.
Speaker 2:Tim Tam Amen sister.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that Sexy as a Tim Tam, because you were talking about broccoli, I know.
Speaker 1:You should have talked to me first, honestly, okay. Well, thank you so much, pascal. I think that was really instructive and we're on a mission now, right, critical thinking and superannuation. And call me anytime I will, I will. So thank you so much, listeners, for tuning in. Lovely to have you along. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. See you next week. Bye, thanks for tuning in to why Smart Women with me.
Speaker 1:Annie McCubbin, I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut, if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, in a car park, in a bar or in your own home, please, please, respect that gut feeling.
Speaker 1:Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together, we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women? See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, annie McCubbin.
