Does David need 8 toothbrushes?

Ever wonder why we hold onto things even when it's time to move on? Inspired by behavioral economist Dan Ariely, we explore the emotional tangle of selling a family home of 24 years and the unexpected adventures that come with it—like our Groodles making a splash in their impromptu swim. Join me, Annie McCubbin, as I reflect on the chaos, nostalgia, and the quirky finds during this major life transition. Discover how overvaluing possessions can anchor us down, and what happens when we dare to let go.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

He was vile to her yeah, vile. You know what's she doing. And I jumped on him, not literally, but I said hang on a minute. Her name's not she. This is Ali. What's your name? Let's talk to each other like people.

Speaker 2 0:15

Yeah, you are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though. I did go through some shockers to find him and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Well, hello smart women and welcome to episode 20 of the why Smart Women podcast.

Speaker 2 1:20

Anybody who does tune in regularly on a Tuesday morning would have found or, in Australian time, would have found that the episode wasn't up yet, and that's because we are running a day late to actually produce it, because yesterday we settled on our house, so anybody who is a regular listener will know that nine weeks ago. So anybody who is a regular listener will know that nine weeks ago, pretty much the day, david and I, after 24 years of living in our house in a Lambie Heights on the northern beaches of Sydney in Australia, we decided to sell. And then, nine weeks later, after the astonishing process of packing up, making a house look as attractive as it can be and getting it ready for sale, and then selling it and then doing everything that it takes to get it ready to be emptied, does that make sense? What I just said then?

Speaker 1 2:21

Yeah, everything we did, and I've got David with me here.

Speaker 2 2:23

Oh, yes, hello, don't start speaking yet because I haven't finished. And, um, here we are. So we, we've packed up, we've gone, and the house further away they're now bossing me around harry the producer and david. So here we. Is it sound all right, or do I have? Yeah, so, um, we packed up and now we're out and somebody else owns our house, it's their house now.

Speaker 2 2:51

It's their house now and they're very nice, and we met them yesterday and they have a three-year-old child and, of course, when we moved in, we had a three-year-old daughter and a seven-year-old son, and they are now 27 and 31. So do the maths? We were there for 24 years. Um so, um, one of my friends from the gym where I go, which has pretty much provided us with every service, haven't they, david? Yeah, every service that we did came from the gym, didn't?

Speaker 1 3:22

it well, no, no, all the services that worked really well came from the gym.

Speaker 2 3:25

Oh yes, all the services, yeah yes, I'll be speaking about the service that didn't work well in a minute um, but we are now sitting in my friend gail's house, who lives um virtually on cocoa beach. So we're sitting here in this glorious um summer afternoon looking out on the absolutely divine beach and rolling surf, and it's very nice and we're deeply grateful. And, gail, when you listen to this, thank you very much. You saved our lives and the lives of our dogs.

Speaker 1 3:56

Although we almost lost the two dogs this morning or the two dogs almost lost their lives because they snuck out the front door, ran across the highway and went for a swim in the ocean pool.

Speaker 2 4:06

Yeah, that's right. That's what they did. The two Groodles they're very opportunistic. I don't know, I think who's the most opportunistic of the Groodles.

Speaker 1 4:14

Yo-Yo?

Speaker 2 4:14

Yeah, I think so, but Ryder's the one who opens the door.

Speaker 1 4:16

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:19

Because she's in, and they'd run over and gone across a major road and had a lovely swim in the ocean pool, which would have been a bit of a shock to the people that were down there trying to have a swim. Anyway, someone called me and then we all ran down there and they were hysterical and wet and thrilled to see us. And now they're back, aren't they? They are, they are indeed back, and the doors are locked, and the doors are locked and everything is good. Locked, the doors are locked and everything is good. So here we are. That's why we're late, that's why I'm late with the podcast today. And what do we think we're going to talk about today, david?

Speaker 1 4:52

Well, it's been a heck of a process, a real baptism of fire, but one that has helped me really understand the nature of the tendency for people to overvalue things that they own yes, and I think that is entirely accurate.

Speaker 2 5:11

Okay and like, and it's been. It absolutely is the most salient example of that, isn't it when you start to look at your possessions and and our inability to divest ourselves of those possessions.

Speaker 1 5:27

I think this is a tendency that can lead to disappointment. It can lead to people holding on to things much longer than they should. And if I could just describe the experiment that was done by Dan O'Reilly and colleagues and he writes of this- so explain who Dan O'Reilly is.

Speaker 1 5:44

Okay, so Dan O'Reilly is a critical thinker. He wrote a book called Predictably Irrational. He's a behavioral economist, isn't he? He's a behavioral economist. There's actually a television series based on Dan O'Reilly which is called Unpredictable, I think. Anyway, let me, let me, let me, let let's just talk about the experiment that they did, because they were looking at the degree to which ownership influences the way that somebody values an object. So, if you own it, if you own, it.

Speaker 2 6:14

You value it more than if you don't. That's right, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:17

So the experiment that they did they raffled off no, they auctioned off tickets to a game, and so there were winners and losers, and the people who won got to purchase the tickets for $25 to this game. Terrific, some people won, some people didn't. Then what the researchers did was they called all the people who didn't win. You know, they put in a bid, they tried to win, they didn't win. They were a little bit disappointed and then said look, there's been a change. You can still buy those tickets for this for the same amount. And what happened was the people said oh, look, it's actually not worth it. We don't want to go to the game.

Speaker 1 7:00

They also called the people who won the tickets for $25. And they said listen, we've got some people who really want to go to the game. Would you accept more for the tickets? You know we'll pay you $35. We'll pay you $50 for the tickets. And the people who own the tickets went no, no, I'm hanging on to them. The only variable between the people who wanted to keep the tickets, even though they were offered more money for them, and the people who decided they didn't want the tickets was the ownership. Was the ownership of it that's right.

Speaker 1 7:35

So the experience of of selling your house well, there's a, there's a. There's a very big example, and we do hear lots of stories about people who set a very high price for their house in real estate and then get very disappointed that no one's willing to make a bid to request a contract during our process of selling and buying our apartment was saying that I think so much of the lives of real estate agents is trying to acclimatize the vendor to the reality of what they're probably going to get.

Speaker 2 8:19

That's right, because once you own something and I guess it'd be interesting to work out what what that ownership actually does in the brain that causes us to to so overvalue it is it just the familiarity? Is it what is it is? It's interesting, isn't it.

Speaker 1 8:37

I mean, what makes sense to me intuitively is if you own something, then you are aware of what it can do for you. You know you've gone through the process and like, if we take the tickets, you know, yes, I get to go see my team play, I get to take somebody with me, I get to have a lovely social event, I get to do something out of the ordinary. It's like the value that the object of ownership brings is going to be expanded, because I think the brain is thinking you know, what can I do with this? So you know, we look at a home and we go okay, this home is worth so much, it's in a fantastic location, it gets lots of sunshine, there are established gardens and fruit trees, there's a sauna, there's a pool, there's a gym downstairs, there's a big tool chest.

Speaker 1 9:21

Everything that you need is there, right there, because you know it. When another person comes along and doesn't know all that stuff, they just see a house on a block of land and yeah, there's a pool there, but they don't, because they don't have a strong relationship with the object itself. They don't effortlessly imagine all the value that that object is going to create.

Speaker 2 9:42

But it can happen. I know they did another experiment where they allocated some pictures to some people, I don't know. There was some sort of situation and they said you can have these. They were like bits of artwork.

Speaker 1 9:57

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 9:58

Like I say to you, david, this is yours, you can have this now?

Speaker 1 10:02

Oh, fantastic, I love that. That's right. What a lovely painting.

Speaker 2 10:04

And then if I came to you ten minutes later and said can I take that back please?

Speaker 1 10:08

then swap it.

Speaker 2 10:09

Oh no, I like this one.

Speaker 1 10:15

Yeah, people are already attached and that happens very, very quickly, doesn't it? Yeah? And well, I mean, that's the thing about heuristics and biases they happen really quickly.

Speaker 2 10:23

A heuristic listeners is a mental shortcut, and we use heuristics all the time. We have to use heuristics because if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to function properly. So we do collectivise things. A pen is a pen. Whether or not it's a Sharpie or a Borrow or a you know something with ink, it's still a pen and we understand that. Um, so we have to use heuristic, but unfortunately, heuristics can also lead us astray.

Speaker 1 10:52

A mental shortcut can lead us astray yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the, the, the phenomena of um, you know you meet somebody and actually it's probably in the first 10 to 15 seconds that you make a judgment about whether you're going to like them or not?

Speaker 2 11:06

Oh no, it's quicker.

Speaker 1 11:07

It's even quicker.

Speaker 2 11:08

Oh no, it's super quick. The notion of whether or not what you think of the person and this is super quick and this comes down to the idea of an intuition is just a fancy word for memory, because you can meet somebody and your brain does a quick sort through the filing cabinet and finds characteristics and aspects of that person, maybe the sound of their voice, the way they tilt their head that remind you of someone, either that you like or you don't like. Stop sneezing, nimi, yo-yo, and yeah, so that's. We make these very, very lightning, quick assessments on people that are either correct maybe yep

Speaker 1 11:54

or incorrect and I tell you, I mean annie and I. Both of us have been on both sides of the casting um as actors, as actors. Yeah, you know. I mean, we go along and we do auditions, and we have also held a lot of auditions. We've cast a lot of actors and what we know is that, generally speaking, in the first 10 seconds, we know you make yeah. Yeah, you make a decision as to whether someone's going to.

Speaker 2 12:18

You know can play the role or not, can fill the role or not, it's so right.

Speaker 1 12:21

It's so right, you know the monologue might go for three minutes, but they've probably already decided in the first 10 seconds yeah, which is sort of depressing isn't it.

Speaker 2 12:28

I was just going to say something about, just in terms of making those very quick decisions, and this is in relation to the cleaning service that we got. So I found a very nice removalist Jason Gunn Gunn Removalist, brilliant through my gym and then we had to organize a cleaner to come through afterwards and the people that we usually used they weren't available. So I went on the internet and I do wonder if I was caught up in the word caliber, caliber.

Speaker 1 13:07

Oh, you're naming names, are you Shall I not?

Speaker 2 13:09

Am I allowed to?

Speaker 1 13:11

Oh well, you know, you might find yourself being sued if you said something that wasn't defensible.

Speaker 2 13:16

Good luck.

Speaker 1 13:16

You just didn't have a good time with them.

Speaker 2 13:19

I had the most appalling time. They didn't turn up. And then when I but there was a't turn up, and then when I but there was a reason for that and then, when I there was a very good reason why they didn't turn up when I endlessly rang and emailed the woman on the phone. It was an offshore company and call centre and because we're now in the land of cancellation I can't do the accent, even though I'd like to and I'm really good at it, I'm not going to use the accent.

Speaker 1 13:46

That's good, because then that would suggest that it would be a cultural thing.

Speaker 2 13:51

But it wasn't a cultural thing, it was not a cultural thing, anyway. And when, eventually, after they were three hours late and I was falling into a deep and profound panic because we had to exchange the day after, I mean settle the day after yep um, she said to me um, unfortunately your cleaner hasn't come um because her husband just tried to um kill her.

Speaker 2 14:16

And my brain did this rapid fire calculation on how I should respond to that, because obviously, if this is a genuine issue of domestic violence, then that trumps my cleaning needs. Of course it does. Or is this just, you know? Are they just pulling out? Excuse what 370? What do you think?

Speaker 1 14:45

It feels like a really strange thing to share with a client, you know Well, it's Rather than just saying I'm sorry. You know they had a personal problem and they couldn't.

Speaker 2 14:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1 14:54

Her husband tried to kill her last night.

Speaker 2 14:56

On that day, on the day. Yeah that's right. Which makes me think that, in terms of because we, david and I, in our training, that we do in our corporate training, we do a lot of work on status, and in terms of which is in terms of being manipulated I mean, somebody is suffering violence at the hand of a partner pretty much trumps everything.

Speaker 1 15:23

That's right. That's the joker in the pack.

Speaker 2 15:25

That's right. That's the joker which robs me-.

Speaker 1 15:27

Of the opportunity to say.

Speaker 2 15:29

Yeah, of saying I don't care. I also have my needs and I'm the client, right in this situation. So I did rapid fire mental calculation on how to respond to this and I actually did want to say well, I better not say that that's not funny.

Speaker 1 15:52

What if she doesn't turn up in Ocular? Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you didn't say that.

Speaker 2 15:59

Yes, I know I didn't, and so I said look, I I'm very, very sorry to hear about the domestic violence situation. I certainly hope that, um, the police have been involved and this is being handled anyway. She then told me a bit about the police, at which point I began to go I don't believe. I actually didn't. I stopped believing her okay was 50.

Speaker 2 16:24

Anyway, I'm highly skeptical and so at that point I said, um, I need to sort of corral that issue. I need you to. I've already paid the money up front for this service as well, I need you to find someone.

Speaker 2 16:38

Anyway. There was endless, endless um sort of uh, vacillating going on from then in the course of that afternoon and um and also harry can contest to the fact that um, it was the most complicated booking I've ever made in my life. In the first place it was just a nightmare anyway, and now I feel like some sort of middle class terrible person, but I'll go in anyway. So then they guaranteed me. I tried to pull the service that night. I said refund me. No, no, no. We found somebody. So in the morning, at three hours, after they said they'd turned up, they turned up and then after 15 minutes one guy was wandering back up the driveway with a cigarette and I said where are you going? He said I've got to go to another job. I said no, no, you are to stay here. No one is leaving the property.

Speaker 2 17:26

I was then like I don't know, and he's pulling status at this moment so, and that's when the whole status thing comes in, and where it's very interesting in terms of our biases, in terms of where we sit in relationship to power, um. So, obviously, we would like to always be in control of our responses, but sometimes we are reactive, um. So in that situation, there's two. There's two things that you can do. You can either go you're not going anywhere put me on the phone, um, I want to speak to your boss or you can just back off the situation and go. I'm powerless in this situation. I can't do anything about it. Take your cigarette and go. Um, that's not my way, though, is it?

Speaker 1 18:15

but the second one. Yeah, no, you're much.

Speaker 2 18:17

You're the first one, yeah I'm the first one that's easier for you that's easier for me in that situation and in this situation situation. If you are the sort of person that does tend to resile from any sort of conflict, it's good to notice that you do that and think well, in this particular circumstances, if I'm going to get what I want, I have to make sure that they know that I'm the person that has control of the situation. So then I spoke to the boss and he was oh, that's good, that's your phone, david. So unprofessional, sorry. I'm very polite and I always make a point. I have never. I always make a point of saying this is not you personally, this is I would like to give feedback to the company.

Speaker 1 19:03

Yes.

Speaker 2 19:03

I'll never shoot the messenger, but in this case they were so rude and complained about the number of cupboards. I was like it's a house, what do you want? Where do you think we put our stuff On the floor? Yes, of course there's cupboards, of course there's cupboards, of course there's cupboards. There's kitchen cupboards, there's dining room cupboards, cupboards, oh my God.

Speaker 1 19:20

Yeah, look, and I know that as a rule you don't shoot the messenger, I don't. That messenger was fairly objectionable, though I'll give you that.

Speaker 2 19:29

And I think he was worse with women.

Speaker 1 19:33

I think he was, or was he rude to you? Oh look, he was terribly rude to you and to our friend Ali, who had come over to help with the cleaning.

Speaker 1 19:42

Yeah, to save the day, when the cleaners didn't come, ali Ali swept in and he was. He was vile to her. Yeah, you know, I was he. Um, you know what? What's she doing, you know? And I, and I jumped on on him, not literally, but I said, hang on a minute, her name's not she. This is Ali. What's your name? Okay, let's talk to each other like people. Yeah, and yes, he was fairly objectionable. No, he was intensely objectionable. Yeah, but they did a reasonable job. I thought they cleaned out all the cupboards. Yeah, it's not good enough and they wouldn't get. I think the firm actually underquoted for the job as well.

Speaker 2 20:20

Yeah, well, there you go.

Speaker 1 20:21

But that's not our fault.

Speaker 2 20:25

None of it, yeah, not, yeah, at the end of the day, that they kept trying to put the problem back on me and I am polite and I did say I, I can hear you, but that it's actually, in this circumstance, not my problem you are going to have to resolve this. So that is an interesting. That is an interesting relationship we have to power in terms of the way we deal with challenges that come into our environment, especially when we're under pressure and we need things to be done where do you go?

Speaker 2 20:53

do you meet the challenge? Do you over, do you go over the top of the challenge? Do you use too much mental energy, do you use too much emotional energy on the challenge, or do you remain as rational as you can and just try and get the outcome?

Speaker 1 21:07

that you want.

Speaker 2 21:07

I hope that's what I did, and the only way I can do that um because I do get a bit fired up is to take my time, because um is to actually give myself the time to think through it, rather than going with my first intuitive response, which sometimes does not give you the outcome that you want. I mean, you did a really good job of shifting things. I think that we didn't like the barbecue.

Speaker 1 21:36

Oh yeah, all of that stuff. I mean there were probably a good dozen items that I thought were worth something. There was a big functional trainer, lots of gym equipment, barbells and a leg press.

Speaker 2 21:46

Oh my.

Speaker 1 21:46

God, that functional trainer, you know. There was the six-burner barbecue Eight and the lovely outdoor table setting. Yeah, all of these things that I described some value in my head to. But as I was going through the process, you know, know you look at the stuff that's on Facebook marketplace or gumtree. Yeah, I could see that the market was not going to value any of these things at the way, at the level that I did, and and understanding that it is a bias, that it is a human quirk to overvalue the things, so we are aware of that bias as it was happening.

Speaker 2 22:22

I was. Were you aware of that bias as it was?

Speaker 1 22:23

happening. I was. I was aware of that bias as it was happening and when I noticed it, it did give me the opportunity to go okay, look, no drama. What's the most important thing here? Vacant position. We get rid of this stuff. If someone can use this and they are happy to take it, then I'll give it to them for free.

Speaker 2 22:40

So we did give a lot of stuff away we did give a lot of stuff away and I know it was quite. You know, for me I had my parents big round um table.

Speaker 2 22:51

It was what it's an heirloom table it was an heirloom table and we, um, harry and I, hawked it around a number of charities and, um, I became quite dispirited as the day went on because they would look at it and sort of point out scratches and go no thanks. And I was like man, I can't even give this away. And it had such history. It was like my parents we ate so many meals around that table.

Speaker 1 23:17

I had so much invested in it.

Speaker 2 23:19

And Harry and I anyway, we hawked it around and we eventually ended up. We took it to Kimbuki Road tip, which is a very, very big refuse. What do you call it?

Speaker 1 23:37

Oh yeah, it's a total waste centre.

Speaker 2 23:39

It's a waste centre.

Speaker 1 23:39

You can take waste there, but they also recycle and they reuse. Yeah, it's actually a fascinating place to go.

Speaker 2 23:45

So Harry and I ended up taking my parents' heirloom table to Kimbricky Road and we got it off the back of the truck. I was feeling guilty about the whole thing. Then we put it on the pile with the chairs and then, as we drove away, one of the guys that worked down there had pulled it off the the um, the pile there you go. Someone had put it off to the side someone could see the value, yeah and then we drove around again because we had to drop something else off.

Speaker 2 24:16

And there it was. It was adorable. It was sitting off to the side with the chairs around it, like they were going to have a dinner party it was really good, it was yeah, but it's, um, yeah, that that sort of thing you sort of can't believe it is, it is that it's just not worth anything. And it's funny, isn't it? Because the number of people have said to me are you sad about going? And I've always assumed I would be.

Speaker 2 24:43

And apart from that slight moment yesterday when I, when we got the email where it said it's gone, it's done, and I said we don't know, I had a moment, but prior to that and through the whole thing I've been, I've I mean, both of us have been pretty much unsentimental yep about moving sentimental about a few little things, but I mean all that stuff we got rid of.

Speaker 1 25:07

Yep.

Speaker 2 25:08

All that stuff. I mean, we do know you're fine for me to actually give you the mantle of hoarder, aren't you? You are a hoarder, oh look.

Speaker 1 25:20

Yeah, look. I'm a member of the tribe, I wouldn't say that I'm the president of the hoarder society.

Speaker 2 25:24

You're not a president. I'd put you at a councillor level. Yeah, but hang on a second A councillor hoarder.

Speaker 1 25:30

Look, the reason why I hang on to stuff is that I know that there's a moment when maybe I'm going to need it.

Speaker 2 25:36

Yeah, we went through it in the last episode.

Speaker 1 25:38

And today.

Speaker 2 25:40

Yes, you did need something.

Speaker 1 25:41

I yes, you did need something. I did need something, I know, but you didn't. And last week we had hundreds of them.

Speaker 2 25:47

Yes.

Speaker 1 25:48

And I'm talking about 12-volt adapters, and they were all bagged in a drawer and then we decided, okay, we're going to get rid of all of this stuff, and then suddenly I was in the need of a 12-volt. Ac adapter and I had to go to J Carr and buy a new one yeah, I know which is bad, but then it.

Speaker 2 26:06

Then it buys back into that narrative that everything is valuable but david. The layers, the layers that we pulled out from under the house prior to you getting to it was breathtaking. Also also, I found eight toothbrushes of yours. Hang on a second. Hang on a minute you know, know the layers.

Speaker 1 26:26

You know it's like an archaeologist, you know, dusting through the layers and then complaining that there are layers of artefacts. You know, all of this stuff was there for a reason. It had its time, they had their moments. I'm not going to convince you of this am I no, because I no.

Speaker 2 26:44

No, there was stuff under there, that Anyway.

Speaker 1 26:47

I actually think the process, can we?

Speaker 2 26:48

go back to the eight toothbrushes. Eight electric toothbrushes.

Speaker 1 26:51

There's only three of them. No, there was eight. Are they right? Yes, you didn't throw five away, did you? I did?

Speaker 2 26:58

You need eight electric toothbrushes. No, well, toothbrushes.

Speaker 1 27:06

No, well, I just need one in every bathroom. No, you don't. And one in the kitchen.

Speaker 2 27:07

Two in the kitchen, one in every bathroom, one downstairs and then one was down near the chicken coop.

Speaker 1 27:11

It's your fault that I had to have all those toothbrushes.

Speaker 2 27:16

How.

Speaker 1 27:16

How.

Speaker 2 27:19

Oh, I know, because you can't disturb me at night.

Speaker 1 27:21

Yeah, I can't disturb you at night.

Speaker 2 27:22

So what you have to have one every. Why do you need a toothbrush at the chicken?

Speaker 1 27:25

coop. Well, you see, if I try and clean my teeth in the bathroom, then you'll complain that I've woken you up.

Speaker 2 27:31

I'm not sleeping in the other bathroom. There was five in the other bathroom Five I think you're exaggerating.

Speaker 1 27:37

No.

Speaker 2 27:37

I'm not.

Speaker 1 27:39

I counted them I did?

Speaker 2 27:41

I kept three and the one at the chicken coop. I don't know what was it doing. What are you doing your teeth down with the chickens?

Speaker 1 27:47

well, it's a long way away from, um. You know the noise zone where I'm going to wake you up well, so is Perth, but you don't need to go that far.

Speaker 2 27:55

I mean, you don't? I'll take a toothbrush if I'm going to Perth anyway, there was a lot of toothbrushes and also there was a lot of toothbrushes and also innumerable garden things 27 of everything we went through this last time but it's gone.

Speaker 1 28:10

Now I actually can't find the toothbrush that I like to use at the moment. I'm hoping you'll help me find it later. No, what? No, you've hidden it away somewhere.

Speaker 2 28:20

No more finding, I'm sure you have. My finding days are over. My finding days are over.

Speaker 1 28:26

Your finding days are over. I tell you what we could have a list my mowing days, my pool cleaning days, oh, that's true, my gutter clearing days, my edging days, chicken coop. My chicken feeding days. My chicken coop cleaning out days. My chopping wood days. So many days are over. Coop cleaning out days.

Speaker 2 28:46

My chopping wood days so many days are over so many days are over so it's a good thing that we've done this we're very, very happy that we've done it, because what it's going to do? Because I had worked out that I spent vast portions of my time either avoiding areas that were messy or cleaning up areas that were messy, and now we have worked out that, now that david doesn't have to maintain the externals, there'll be much more focus for you, just to put your brain another thing that's right and we've turned a new leaner leaner do you know what leaner is?

Speaker 1 29:23

a lean Alina. What's Alina?

Speaker 2 29:24

it's a combination of corner and a leaf.

Speaker 1 29:26

Alina we turned a corner.

Speaker 2 29:29

We got lifters and leaners turning over a new Lena. We're a bit punch drunk we are a little bit punch drunk, I must say trim the whole thing and the the woman like we're the only people who have ever done it.

Speaker 1 29:42

I know, I.

Speaker 2 29:42

I know it's so solipsistic, I know.

Speaker 1 29:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 29:45

And but the what I love is that everyone was like put your stuff on Gumtree, or, and the complexity of dealing with an individual.

Speaker 1 30:00

Oh my God, oh goodness.

Speaker 2 30:02

There was the most classic thing when the lady that said that she'd come and and um and get, take the barbecue, take the barbecue away, big barbecue anyway, we said, cool, that that'd be great she rang and she said can I come and pick up your barbecue?

Speaker 1 30:16

and I said, yeah, when would you like to do it?

Speaker 2 30:18

and she said I'll do her, I'll do her. Oh, really, yeah. When would you like to pick it up? Oh, where had had she been? Wasn't Chester Hill, where was?

Speaker 1 30:23

it. No, it had been on St Albans Crossing.

Speaker 2 30:25

Oh, and she said well, I've spent the day getting back from St Albans Crossing. It's not easy. It's been a very, very, very big day getting back from there.

Speaker 2 30:36

Anyway, I'm back now and what I'm going to do is I'm going to have a bit of Danish salami, a bit of blue vein cheese and a glass of red, and this was 11 o'clock in the morning, 11 o'clock in the morning and then I'll be over and I just love the fact that suddenly you get these sort of detailed insights, these little windows into other people's lives and, as you know, as I write, I love to hear those things and I'm like wow.

Speaker 1 31:09

Oh, she was terrific. Oh she was great. I kind of really enjoyed the conversation. She turned up in this Pantech truck. It was massive, Great big truck. She had five daughters Diesel truck. She lives in the truck, she's got the five daughters. She's a bit of a gypsy and she's got the five daughters. She's a bit of a bit of a gypsy. And she took the barbecue. That's going to be the kitchen of her farmhouse.

Speaker 2 31:38

And I also gave her a large eight-seater wicker glass top outdoor table Table, which was really really good, which was fantastic. She took that too.

Speaker 1 31:41

Yeah, you know, once upon a time we would have put a price tag on it, but we didn't.

Speaker 2 31:46

No, we didn't.

Speaker 1 31:48

And just the process of getting rid of all of this stuff. I think my relationship to objects has completely changed.

Speaker 2 31:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:54

I don't want to buy another object again.

Speaker 2 31:57

I'm going to keep you to that. I'm keeping you to that.

Speaker 1 32:01

Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 2 32:05

I think I've got it. Keeping you to that, yeah, no problem, I think. Well, my, you know what, what I buy, what my buying habit is clothes, clothes. Yeah, I love clothes. But you see, like a good piece of furniture occasionally I do like that, but I'm not a I. I am more likely to buy, to buy clothes, but I, I am a thrower, outerer, uh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 32:22

You were disappointed that nobody wanted to pay you decent money for your Alana Hill.

Speaker 2 32:31

No, it wasn't Alana Hill, it was Veronica Main. I'd worn it once and this woman offered me $5 and sort of turned her nose up. I was like get lost.

Speaker 1 32:40

There you are. Well, it's like the tickets to the game.

Speaker 2 32:44

Well, it's not, anyway, like the tickets to the game. Well, it's not, because, anyway, possibly could possibly be right. Anyway, we're out of there now.

Speaker 1 32:48

I, I I just reckon that if, if, if someone offers you less than what you expect for anything, I mean, you know, make a decision sell it or don't sell it. But don't be disappointed, just accept the fact that you're always going to overvalue what you have. I know that there are sometimes stories about you know houses that got much more at auction than anybody could have.

Speaker 2 33:11

Well, it depends if it's in a boot, if it's in a boom market, right that's right, or if you have two buyers who are motivated and they try and beat each other, but I reckon that's the exception, not the we don't know we it, we don't know, we don't know what the real estate agent was saying to us was, and this is Robin Haslett-Poole from one agency in Lannan.

Speaker 2 33:33

Heights, who were great, like great. She said the market has just sort of corrected itself, just come back to normal. It was not the way it was before. And as we kept saying to David, buying and selling in the same market also, who have I become? I'm now one of those people that talked about market value of the house oh, I want to shoot myself.

Speaker 1 33:51

Next thing I'll be talking about where the children went to school.

Speaker 2 33:54

It's very bad yeah right and where we go on holidays. I'll be talking about that.

Speaker 1 33:59

I'll be talking about cruises what should you be talking about? What's a? What's that? What's a topic of conversation that's not going to um lead to you being um, you know, scorned by who's spawning of me? You, oh, I don't know well I, you know well, I could start talking about the american election again, but I'm not going to because it upsets me I'm not going to talk about that.

Speaker 2 34:19

Do you know? You know what we're going to do, harry? How long has that been?

Speaker 1 34:24

Ages.

Speaker 2 34:24

That's ages.

Speaker 1 34:26

Feels like a lifetime Is that.

Speaker 2 34:27

Enough of listening to David and I talk. I'm pretty sick of listening. I'm sick of our voices. Now, what about you?

Speaker 1 34:35

I hear your voice much more than I hear my own, so I'm kind of enjoying it. That's hilarious Having the opportunity to talk, yeah.

Speaker 2 34:47

I think that's good. I think we've described the process of overvaluing, the cognitive bias that comes with overvaluing your own thing.

Speaker 1 34:58

And I hope that just recognizing that it's a very human bias. It's a quirk to overvalue the things that you own and probably get a little bit disappointed when other people don't value them so highly.

Speaker 2 35:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:11

If you understand that that's just the way of the world, then maybe there'll be a little bit less inertia, a little bit less weight, a little bit less disappointment when you relieve yourself of some temporal object that you no longer need well, I reckon we've relieved ourselves 60 percent of the stuff that we had at least, or maybe 70.

Speaker 2 35:30

Juanita was saying what percent I said? I reckon we've got rid of 70 percent of everything we own, which you'll never miss. And now the good thing is is now there's room in my wardrobe for me to buy another dress which is so good.

Speaker 1 35:47

Look, the dresses that you've got at the moment are terrific.

Speaker 2 35:49

No, they're not. You don't need any more, I do.

Speaker 1 35:52

No, that's good what you're wearing.

Speaker 2 35:54

What, yeah, no that's nice, I've got to go to work tomorrow in Brisbane and look fabulous Well what did you wear last?

Speaker 2 36:00

time. No, it's not easy being a woman, having to look fabulous all the time. Anyway, we're sitting here in awesome gales beautiful, beautiful lounge room looking at the gorgeous surf. We've been for a swim. I'm going to get a second coffee. Thanks so much for listening and looking forward to talking to you. Oh, there comes my adult son. Hello, lachlan, we're just recording the podcast. You can come in Looking for Yo, yo, shush, shush, don't growl at Lachlan. Looking forward to talking to you next week. Thanks for listening. Bye for now. Thanks for tuning in to why Smart Women with me, annie McCubbin.

Speaker 2 36:43

I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, in a car park, in a bar or in your own home. Please, please, respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that.

Speaker 2 37:34

And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together, we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, annie McCubbin.