Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
A dogged approach to life and other ideas.
Ever tried moving from a spacious family home to a snug apartment without losing your sanity—or your sense of humor? I recently embarked on this nerve-wracking journey alongside my partner, David, and our two groodles. As we settled into a dog-friendly community on Sydney's northern beaches, we discovered quirky social dynamics that unfolded in the shared garden. Amidst these life changes, I found myself celebrating the small yet sweet victory of resisting late-night chocolate cravings, proving even the tiniest wins can brighten our days.
You are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur, jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though I did go through some shockers to find him, and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Well, hello smart women, and welcome back to the why Smart Women podcast.
Speaker 1:I hope you had a fabulous Christmas and New Year and you managed not to get embroiled in too many family dramas and just generally had a bit of a restful time. I didn't have a particularly restful time. Thanks for asking, because, of course, oh, that's so unprofessional. That's my phone ringing. Harry, can you turn my phone off please? It's just there, thank you. We're recording in a new place. You see everybody, so we're just all sort of acclimatizing ourselves anyway. So what was I saying? Oh, yes, I was saying that I didn't have a particularly restful time because, of course, during the Christmas break we did the final lap of the move from our large family home to our small dy on the northern beaches of Sydney Australia, to our apartment. So that's where we are now, and I'm joined today by my partner, david hello everybody hello David why am I saying it like that?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I'm trying to sound interesting, oh you're trying to make me sound interesting. I'm trying, maybe both I'm trying to sound interesting and I'm trying to make you sound, I don't know, sort of like there's some import, okay.
Speaker 2:Ah, and of course that would then reflect back onto you, because if you have an important person to talk to, then that probably makes you Reflects positively on me, positively on you. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So we've made it we're in our new two-bedroom apartment without killing each other. So I think that's a big tick to us.
Speaker 2:Was that ever a threat? Was that ever a threat?
Speaker 1:Possibly.
Speaker 2:What did you I?
Speaker 1:can't look at you, possibly wanted to kill you a couple, didn't you want to murder me a couple of times? No, no. Well, okay, there could be two stronger terms. There was a couple of moments, but anyway we got through it Sure.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, there could be two stronger terms.
Speaker 1:There was a couple of moments, but anyway, we got through it. I must have missed them. No you, no what? No you?
Speaker 2:didn't when you wanted to kill me.
Speaker 1:Well, no, can you not get fixated on that? I'm just saying that there were moments of frustration, and it's metaphoric.
Speaker 2:But you said that there were moments that you were going to kill me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's metaphoric, I wasn't really going to Right.
Speaker 2:But if I missed them, surely I should know what they were. So I don't do them again. We're moving on now, David my podcast.
Speaker 1:we're moving on, All right.
Speaker 2:She wants to kill me now.
Speaker 1:I sort of do, actually, so anyway. So we've moved and we really like it and, more to the point, the two large grudels really like it.
Speaker 2:Which is splendid.
Speaker 1:Which is splendid it was absolutely actually necessary.
Speaker 2:If they didn't like it, then we'd have to move out and try something else, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, and that would have been awkward, wouldn't it? Although today we've got a, so our little courtyard opens out onto a garden and where there's a cornucopia of dogs. Actually it's like the units have been built around a dog park. It's incredibly dog friendly and everyone's very collegial and friendly and welcome to the community and it's really awesome, except for there's one dog for which is always on a lead and it's large, and then Ryder has a go and he had a go today at the dog and there was that awful gnashing of teeth and the way they sort of run in and have a go at each other and it was really horrible. And now I'm still quite stressed about it.
Speaker 1:I can feel that sort of aroused sense of anxiety in my chest also. I didn't know what to say to the can. Feel that sort of aroused sense of anxiety in my chest. Also I didn't know what to say to the guy and I sort of stood there uselessly. I felt really useless, sort of mumbling sorry.
Speaker 2:He's not very helpful in situations like that.
Speaker 1:Ryder.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. The owner of the dog, the owner of the other dog.
Speaker 1:No, there's a bit of sort of antipathy, isn't there? But I, I, you know, I I sort of lamely apologized and then sort of just stood there and we sort of stood there. It was really awkward and didn't like it. So now we're going to have to put right at the larger of the, on a um, on a lead all the time when we're in that part of the garden. But that's a small price to pay for the fact that it is um, it is an awesome environment to live and the fact that we're we've been there now for two weeks um, I have succumbed to the bottle shop, but I have not succumbed to going downstairs and getting chocolate at 10 o'clock from the woolies, which I'm thrilled about. I'm just, I'm so thrilled.
Speaker 2:Isn't that because there's been chocolate in the fridge?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, no, no.
Speaker 1:You are right, I'm praising myself too early in the chocolate procurement process.
Speaker 2:We can never have too much praise.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So yeah, but I haven't, oh, davidid sorry that's ruined it for me you haven't.
Speaker 2:You haven't gone downstairs and got a bottle of wine. I have.
Speaker 1:I have also. I've sent you down to get some tequila yes, I know so we could have. I'd quite like that tonight really, I'd really like, oh, the best thing is.
Speaker 1:The best thing is that we can just leave the apartment and walk down eight minutes and we're in a a sea of restaurants that that serve yummy cocktails. I sound like an alcoholic. It's really bad. Um, I'm not an alcoholic, but I do like a bit of a margarita. Anyway, there's been a bit of dining out and that's been fabulous and we're just sort of can't believe our luck, can we?
Speaker 2:No, we can't. There's been a bit of going to the beach as well. There's been a lot of going to the beach, which has been superb.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's been a lot of going to the beach and also listeners may or may not know that I am claustrophobic and have a dislike of lifts and certain lifts trigger me more. Like big city lifts generally I'm okay, but car park lifts I will go out of my way and have got lost many times in car parks because I haven't wanted to take the lift anyway.
Speaker 2:You've been magnificent.
Speaker 1:David, you're so praising of me today.
Speaker 2:No in this. I do know how you suffer mentally as those lift doors open.
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:And we did check out all the fire escapes and any other way to get to the apartment.
Speaker 1:Well, prior to buying it, I said to Dave I'm not going up and down in a lift, it'll cause me so much stress. So we mapped out the these um fire escapes. But they're absolutely labyrinthine, aren't they? They're labyrinthine, but I thought extra steps. Every time I leave the place, I'll put the dogs on a lead and we will go down um through this labyrinthine sort of corridors. And do you know what? I haven't used them once and that's saying something that.
Speaker 1:So I've been in that lift and and thinking, and really and truly, because what do they say about um phobias and anxiety?
Speaker 2:what do they say about phobia? Exposure, exposure.
Speaker 1:The more anxious we become, the more avoidant we become, and that's with all sorts of anxieties. So, with this particular anxiety, my tendency has been to avoid, avoid, avoid. And of course avoidance is terrible. And what Kathy said was my friend the psychologist that when you're in a situation Like that like get into a lift, spell your name backwards, do some maths, timetables, anything that gets you out of the Emotional part of the brain, the limbic system, into the prefrontal cortex, because your brain can't do two things at once. And I have been successfully doing that until today yes, but that could have happened to anybody.
Speaker 2:In fact, it happened to me as well. Yeah, but did you panic?
Speaker 1:um, and you didn't tell me that happened okay when did it happen? Oh my god, did the lift stop? No, what happened.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I I got into the lift.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, waved the fob. Yeah, pressed two, hit the button and started daydreaming, but didn't notice that the button didn't actually register.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So there I was, standing in a lift and the lift was going well, nothing's happening.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I think I'll go on a journey to the 17th floor and away I went and, yes, I met a very nice family up there on the 17th floor and we came back down again.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, and that happened to me today, but I hadn't noticed that I'd hit the fob and the two hadn't lit up. So the lift I had Ryder in the lift as well, and the lift was then hurtling. Hurtling's probably dramatic, isn't it? It was just traveling upwards at a sedate pace towards the 17th floor and instead of doing what I have trained myself to do, which is to get out of the limbic system and into the prefrontal cortex by, you know, spelling my name backwards or remembering poem or something, I instead tragically began hitting at my phone, going david, david until the doors opened.
Speaker 1:You underestimate my powers, didn't even dial your number just going david, david anyway, got up to the 17th floor because my fear is that nothing, that I'll be trapped in there, right, that's the sort of the claustrophobia, but anyway, got up there and then a gentleman got in and I said it didn't stop at two. He said yes, but it will, in such a calm and considered and intelligent way that I then traveled back down to the second floor and it opened and drama over, but that on. And then I had the incident with the, with the great dane, with the. I shouldn't have said the breed, anyway I did with the sort of dog fight.
Speaker 2:You've out, you've outed, almost outed, digby, oops now I've even said his name. Yes, I don't think the digby zone is going to be listening to the why smart women podcast.
Speaker 1:I don't think so either, but you never know. But anyway, it is our. He's in fact correct that we have to now keep rider on a lead in that area, but the whole um, two incidents have um, set off an anxious response, and I know that it's an anxious response because I can clearly identify it, and this is a really good thing to do for any of you lovely smart women out there who do get a spot of anxiety very, very common. You're not alone, and that is. If you do experience anxiety, then just have a moment to recognize where it's residing in your body. So for me, anxiety resides in my chest and a bit into my stomach. And then what do you do, david, after you've done that?
Speaker 2:well, I think what you, what you've done I mean you, you've noticed it, you've acknowledged it, and what I think is actually terrific is that you kind of normalized it. It's like you haven't gone into the oh, I failed. You know, I've, I've, I've reverted back to a, to a, to a time in my life when my anxiety is going to leap out and ambush me at any moment.
Speaker 1:You've just gone, oh well, that happened, uh, and it happens, and you normalized it yeah, and I, oh yeah, and I think the big, the big thing is that I don't like it and you don't have to like it. No, why would you Like? It's not, I'm not, it's not the best thing, but the other thing I've done and maybe you could explain, you know, the whole anchoring in a storm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Would you like me to do that? Right now I would yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. So now, before I do that, you know, before we go to any kind of technique sort of stuff, yes um, okay, so you're having the. You're having the anxiety response, yes, and if you think about it, I mean, why wouldn't you? You know, you're trapped in a box, you're hurtling towards the 17th floor hurtling, thank you out of control. You can't get in contact with me. Yes, so all of the events that are going on in your body, the triggers.
Speaker 2:All the stuff that is telling you that you're anxious. Yeah, it has a very good purpose.
Speaker 1:But doesn't always right. Sometimes anxiety is just sort of free floating and just sort of there right.
Speaker 2:In its original form form. You know the origin of that kind of anxiety was to keep you safe, can you? Explain what you mean by that. Well, it'll it okay, so so let's take the lift example. Probably the next time you get into the lift, you'll be much more careful that when you hit the two button, that it actually lights up and the lift only goes to two. Yes, and you're not in that situation, like the situation that I was in myself as well, where I thought I'd hit the button but I hadn't yes, okay so the reason why we have you know originally why this anxiety fear manifests yeah is that it has an impact.
Speaker 2:It has an impact and and and that fear is actually a function of memory. So if, if you have a, a big emotional experience, you're much more likely to remember it. Yes, and then protect yourself. Take the actions that protect yourself in future so.
Speaker 1:But it's not necessary in in this modern day often, is it actually?
Speaker 2:it's, it's. It's not necessary in this modern day.
Speaker 1:often is it to actually. It's not necessary, it's not that fit for purpose, is it?
Speaker 2:the anxiety. It's not fit for purpose if it overwhelms you. But if it happens, probably one of the least useful things that you can do is beat yourself up about the fact that you're feeling anxious. You know why am I doing this? It's really stupid.
Speaker 2:And then you get into this internal debate and then you start worrying that you're going to do it again, and then you'll have another debate and um yeah, that's right the much the much more sort of elegant way that you're handling it is that you recognize that it's happened, you know why it happened, you know it's not necessary, but also you appreciate that that response in the body has a purpose. And so what you then do is you just you know you move towards what is going to be a better future. I know that sounds like grandiose language, but in this instance you just how Well, okay, well, you said to the gentleman you explained your dilemma I can't go down, I only wanted to go to the second floor, explained your dilemma I can't go down, I only wanted to go to the second floor. And then he told you It'll stop there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the feeling has the residual anxiety. Oh, the feeling's still there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the anxiety.
Speaker 1:Well, that's actually better since I've started doing the podcast. But I'm talking about how you manage the sensation after the event has passed and, as we know, we then get stuck in this state of heightened arousal. Yeah right, how do you manage that?
Speaker 2:okay, well, I mean if you understand that that heightened arousal actually requires a feat of imagination yeah like, like, um, um, you know what if I can't escape from this? You know it. You what if I get stuck here? It's almost like you have to imagine a future.
Speaker 1:For the whole weekend. Yes, In the black, with no water and a dog.
Speaker 2:You'll have to eat the dog, unless they eat you first.
Speaker 1:You're eating the dogs.
Speaker 2:Eating the dogs, I mean look, this is a reframe and it's actually quite easy to do a reframe around an anxious response when you're out of the situation.
Speaker 1:That's all I want you to do. I want you to talk about, you know, the boat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Get to it, David, Okay so there is a little technique and it's called dropping anchor.
Speaker 1:Right, talk about that.
Speaker 2:It's a work on an act by Russ Harris from the work on Act by Russ Harris.
Speaker 1:I wanted you to do this five minutes ago and you've banged on a bit.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. The metaphor goes like this yeah go. As a ship is sailing into harbour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, am.
Speaker 2:I the ship, you're the ship, I'm the ship, you're the ship. You're sailing into harbour and you're almost there when a storm blows up. Ah yes, big weather.
Speaker 1:Big weather, big waves, huge wind yes, driving rain, yes, so Am I a sailing boat.
Speaker 2:You are a sailing boat. Oh, you're a sailing boat. Yeah, you're coming into port With big white sails. There's the big weather that's happening Am. I attractive oh gorgeous. Yeah, I mean, you're a beautiful sleek maxi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Is this embellishment extending the story a bit?
Speaker 1:Oh, go on, oh, shut up, go on.
Speaker 2:So what is true?
Speaker 2:and what I think everybody recognizes is that, no matter how much you howl or pray or cry, you can't stop the weather. Can't stop the storm. Yeah, can't stop the storm. The storm is going to happen. So what a good sailor does is that they drop anchor. And when you drop the anchor, what that does is it just holds you steady. It doesn't hold you in a fixed position, but it stops you from being swept back out to sea. And how do I do that? Okay, well, let's think about that from a. Okay, let's unpack the metaphor. I'm the attractive ship.
Speaker 2:Well, now you're the attractive woman with the grudel in the elevator.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, and there you are. You're hurtling towards the 17th floor. Yeah, yeah yeah, and you're out of control and you can't get in contact with me and who knows who's going to be on the 17th floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah and your imagination's going, this is going to be terrible.
Speaker 1:I could be stuck here for a weekend, all weekend, maybe a whole week.
Speaker 2:The emotions are the storm. The emotions are the storm. You can't change what you feel.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't stop having an emotion. Yeah right, anchor, drop anchor and um, and the way we generally teach people to to drop anchor is that you acknowledge. You acknowledge that you're having this response while you're doing it, while you're doing it you know you, you, you notice what's going on, you acknowledge it and you accept it, and that's and that's what's happening. It's a good thing in these moments also to breathe, so you know you say to yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is happening yes, it's going to remind myself to breathe, in fact to breathe out, because when you breathe out, that also triggers a little um mechanism in the mind that says no, this is okay. I can relax, um, and then you, you come into your body. In fact, if you can center yourself and come into your body and notice what is present and what's present, what is present and what's present, what is present, well, you've got a solid floor, you've got nice shiny polished.
Speaker 1:There's mirrors and I could have looked and seen how the back of my hair looked, because I can actually see the back of my hair in that lift, which is awesome. It's actually been looking pretty good.
Speaker 2:And when you're curious about the back of your hair it's very difficult to be anxious.
Speaker 1:So okay, and I think there's that thing also where you sort of feel the fact that you can move your arms and move your legs right, that there's more to you yeah and I think that's key is that the problem with these sort of anxiety inducing emotions is that they are very, very overwhelming and it begins to feel as if the anxiety is all there is, and I think what this sort of process does is it reminds you that it's just part of it, right, because you can still move your arms you can move, your legs you can breathe. You can look at the back of your hair.
Speaker 2:You can pat the dog.
Speaker 1:You can pat the dog. There's a whole lot of stuff that you can move your legs, you can breathe, you can look at the back of your hair, you can pat the dog. You can pat the dog. There's a whole lot of stuff that you can do while the emotion is still present.
Speaker 1:While the emotion is still present and I know we come back to this all the time, but it is the resistance to the feeling, it is the resistance to the emotion that causes the perpetuating of it. If you have it and it's there, it's not there, it will come and go in its own time.
Speaker 2:That's right. It's like a storm blows over.
Speaker 1:It's like a storm blows over and there was a part of me that thought I was so sort of in such a state of sort of general upset because of the dog lift dual incident that I thought I don't think I can do the podcast. But actually now I'm doing it, I'm fine, and that's, of course, because I am doing something that I value, yep, that I believe in, that's aligned with my value system, and it's taking my brain some activation to concentrate on doing this, which is really good.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I mean, how are you feeling now?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not meant to want it to go away, am I?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And that is the. I mean, that's the little leap of faith with some of these techniques, um, that if you notice the, um, the emotions rising, you know the urge to do something that is probably not in your best interest or that's not going to help the situation yeah, and what would that be?
Speaker 1:what would? What? Could I do that?
Speaker 2:because I um, I was screamed and beaten on the door of the lift with your fists how humiliating.
Speaker 1:Okay, exactly but now in the aftermath, I think as well. And, um, I think it's good to talk about this because I do have clients and so many of my clients talk about the fact that they are anxious and they feel so wrong and stupid about being anxious right so I think it's good to talk about how we do have these sort of anxieties or fears and that sometimes what we well, I think sometimes what happens with people when they get anxious is they be.
Speaker 1:Not everybody looks like nervous wrecks, right? Not everybody walks around like a little shaking mouse. Sometimes, when people are anxious or fearful or worried, they actually get aggressive yes, right, yes or righteous or righteous like I did the other day oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you want me to tell that? No, no, okay, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't want to have to think about oysters, um, so no, we'll tell it another time. But I think that righteousness, um, you might become argumentative off the back of the anxiety, and I think this probably causes quite a lot of trouble in relationships when, instead of people acknowledging that, um, rightly or wrongly, with, just without judgment, they're experiencing something and having it, they might start actually externalizing and then making trouble in their relationships. Yes, would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And look, I guess the reason why I was interested in telling this particular story was that I had an emotional response, but it wasn't an emotional response that I would describe as anxiety or fear, and yet the same dynamics existed. You know, I could feel I had this feeling and I wanted to act on this feeling because it was really big and it was the most important thing. That was the only only reality that I had.
Speaker 1:You know, tell it as quickly as you can, but don't go on too much okay, so um look part of it was because it was your birthday.
Speaker 2:Do we mention that you had?
Speaker 1:it was my birthday. I I look incredible for my age. You do.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable, like a maxi yacht.
Speaker 1:I went to the gym this morning and smashed it out, just to prove to myself that I could.
Speaker 2:We'd had a terrific day thus far.
Speaker 1:Thus far.
Speaker 2:And so I thought, you know, mid-afternoon, you know I'd go for a little walk, you know buy some flowers. And you know I bought the flowers and I was wandering around the DY. You know, mid-afternoon, you know I'd go for a little walk, you know, buy some flowers. And you know I bought the flowers and I was wandering around the DY. You know shopping precinct and I came across a seafood restaurant and it's like oh my God, I didn't know that they had a seafood shop outlet. Yeah, and they had oysters Can.
Speaker 1:I just say at this point what were you doing, eating food just before you went out to dinner?
Speaker 2:Look, it was going to be half a dozen oysters.
Speaker 1:It's still food.
Speaker 2:Small food, very, very, very small food. Go on. And I went to pay. I had a long chat with the gentleman and we had the oysters in a little tray and I tried to pay but they didn't take an Amex and I said oh look, this is a big shame and you've already served them up. I'll be back tomorrow with the payment. And it was just absolutely no.
Speaker 1:Well, but just because for people listening will be going. Well, you know, you're a shopkeeper, it does make sense, because he doesn't know you from Adam and you could be a serial oyster thief. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So in this instance, I'm not saying that I was. I was um right, I was. I was I. No, I, I. I wasn't saying that. My response was rational rational or valid or appropriate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I just noticed that I had a response because, you know, one of my values is that I think that I should be trusted. And there was. You know we'd had a conversation and I thought we were at that point in the relationship where he could trust me.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:But he didn't. No, and that really bothered me because I'd been having such a nice day, it was like the perfect day. I had the flowers there. I thought, you know, these oysters will just, you know, put me in the perfect state of mind for the rest of the evening. And he ruined it. And just completely ruined it, and so I noticed myself ruminating on it and you know I was going to go back later, you know, with the cash and I was going to wave it at him and say you can take your oyster.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I want listeners to know that David is quite a rational human being. It's just that. Yeah, go on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm talking about this irrational stuff which I normally internalize, right, yeah, which I normally internalize, and that also would have been a tremendous shame. So what I did was I actually did the dropping anchor thing and I noticed the urge to want to say you shouldn't be treating me like this, I'll be your best customer, et cetera, and it's just like, as you say, no one cares, shopkeepers don't care, they want money before they hand. I could have been an oyster thief.
Speaker 1:You had no relationship with him. Oyster thief serial oyster thief could have been.
Speaker 2:But when you're in the midst of it, this experience, experience, this feeling of high dudgeon was, um, was, was palpable and um, and I did that dropping anchor thing yeah, fortunately it just the impulse passed the impulse passed and we got on with the evening there's a couple of really interesting things about that.
Speaker 1:one is that the notion that the day had gone so well so far and this had spoiled it, as if the one event had negated what had gone before. Yes, which is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 2:There's like and I think that's a bit of magical thinking in there, isn't it that this is supposed to be a special day?
Speaker 1:This is meant to be a special day. It's just magical thinking. It's gone, it's gone, everything's gone. Well, obviously there's some. The universe is shining upon me because it's gone so well and now I'm going to be gifted with some oysters and everything will be perfect. Was that when, actually, you still had? The rest of the day was good and the evening was good? There was just a moment, so that's one thing. Secondly, in relation to the business with the shopkeeper, if I'd given him my Amex and he'd said we don't take it, not in a blind fit and this is interesting would I have said to him I'll come back tomorrow with the money, not in a fit. I just think it's interesting, the expectation that we have. I would have been. My focus would have been more on the fact that I had screwed up by not having the correct amount of because I hadn't had the correct currency, and that I had inconvenienced him because he'd packed it up. So I would have been experiencing humiliation. It's interesting, isn't exactly the same situation, but I wouldn't have.
Speaker 2:I would not have said that yeah, but you know, do you know where my mind had gone?
Speaker 2:do tell me well I mean it was the end of the day, um, and if no one was going to take these oysters now, then I really hope that they wouldn't have served them, put them in the window the following day and I was thinking about the business and how ridiculously unnecessary it was for this business to forego this income by a lack of trust in human nature. I'm not telling you that I'm right. I'm telling you this is what my strange mind had done.
Speaker 1:That is an interesting thought track, because my thought track would have been antithetical to that. I would have thought I'm such an idiot and now I've wasted his time and I would have skulked off. I would have done a bit of skulking, a bit like I did with the guy with the dog today.
Speaker 2:I just sort of skulked.
Speaker 1:I sort of stood there sort of pointlessly hanging on to Ryder's collar and then I skulked off.
Speaker 1:It was awful, it was sort of humiliating and I think it's interesting, isn't it? And I wonder. I do wonder if that difference in our approach to the oyster issue is anything to do with gender. What do you think I'm going to ask, Harry? Harry, if that was you and that happened to you, and you'd passed over your Amex and they didn't take Amex and it was the end of the day, would you have said I'll come back tomorrow with the money.
Speaker 2:No one else is going to buy these oysters, Harry, yeah but would he have thought that far Would?
Speaker 1:you have said Well, I don't like oysters. Ah, Harry doesn't like oysters. Yeah, I don't like them either.
Speaker 2:You know I'm, I would have just gone, whatever, oh whatever, yeah, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1:They probably can't hear you. I would have asked if I could come back today. Oh, you would have and I'd go whatever you would have. You would have asked but not been attached to the outcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was worried about the conditions of the oysters.
Speaker 1:You were never.
Speaker 2:I was. You were never you take them off the ice and you put them in one of those little polystyrene trays.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:And it's like if they're not eaten now, they're going to be ruined.
Speaker 1:I would like to do a straw poll among my female and male friends and see who would have felt um humiliated. Can you stop jiggling your foot? It's foot, it's part of the adhd thing. It drives me nuts oh my god, that's right I I'd like to do a straw poll about and isn't it interesting our responsiveness to exactly the same situation and where we go with our minds.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Would you have skulked off with the dog thing today? I?
Speaker 2:probably would have given the dog's owner a bit of advice on. You know how to manage dogs that want to tussle.
Speaker 1:He called you that guy as well. He said the other guy.
Speaker 2:I said that's my husband yeah, the other guy yeah the other guy the other guy has the dog under control no, he didn't say that.
Speaker 1:He said the other guy's the same as you, he just keeps apologizing and does nothing. Did he say that does nothing about it? He said you don't take action, you just keep apologizing oh wow, he's probably. Well, that's fair enough it is actually fair enough we should have the dog on a lead, but oh poor dogs, they just want to run free like wolves, don't they harry? How long have we been talking for? We got very onto the oyster thing, didn't we? I think that's probably enough that that oyster thing is interesting, though look.
Speaker 2:the only reason that I mentioned it is that, um, when it comes to the business of you know what are we calling this? Emotional regulation, or dealing with large emotions when they arise.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's one of those obviously animating emotions like fear or anxiety, but sometimes it's an emotion that manifests in um, in righteousness or yeah, absolutely and and the only person at that point yeah, who could ruin the rest of the day yeah was was me in my own mind yeah, yeah and um yeah and and even though I was telling myself that I did have to do the technique in order to really kind of, yeah, but you did, and I think that shows along the top in all seriousness, I think I do think that shows um a considered approach, because often what happens is we just, um are beset by a large and unwieldy emotion and that's pretty much just the end of it.
Speaker 1:Right, we just have it, we're uncomfortable, we maybe make trouble, we cause drama because of it, but actually what you did was you considered it and managed it, and that's, um what we need to do. Yeah, smart women and smart men, we need understand, start to become aware of these emotions, whether they're valid or not. They're still present and, rather than acting on them, learning to regulate them and then, when the actual emotion has passed, choosing an action that takes you towards the sort of life that you want to lead, not one that takes you away from it.
Speaker 2:And if you're constantly caught up in emotional dysregulation, then it's very difficult to lead a productive life, because it's uncomfortable and awful I mean, for me it was easy to do that because it was your birthday, so it was easy for me to remind myself. You know, what state do I want to be in on Annie's birthday? Do I want to be flushed with righteous anger and resentment? Oh preferably not. Not on Annie's birthday, not on my birthday.
Speaker 1:And I must confess the the day before I was quite cranky pants because I was confronted by the fact that I was about to have another birthday and I had driven past our children's high school and I realized that they would. Well, my daughter is now 10 years past it and suddenly I felt really old and sort of like it has been. And then it often happens with me I have these sort of negative emotions prior to the event that I'm all right because I woke up on my birthday and I was fine and awesome and I'm just deeply grateful that I'm here and alive and I have, you know, a good and interesting career and a nice family, and also harry the producer, that's um, that you know. My cup is full. Thank you, harry. Harry's still thinking about the fact he doesn't like oysters. Okay, smart women, thank you so much for tuning in. Um and um, we will talk again very soon. Wherever you are in the world, have a great day. Thanks guys, bye. Thanks for tuning in to why Smart Women with me.
Speaker 1:Annie McCubbin, I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know. It's about how you think.
Speaker 1:And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, in a car park, in a bar or in your own home, please, please, respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together, we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women. See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, annie McCubbin.
