Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
What If Your Imperfections Are Actually Human?
What if your biggest flaws aren't flaws at all, but simply part of being human?
We've all had that moment—catching a glimpse of ourselves in the mirror and immediately focusing on some perceived imperfection. That unexpected view of "tuck shop arms" (as we call them in Australia) or an unflattering angle in a video can trigger an avalanche of self-criticism. But why do we do this to ourselves?
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You are listening to the why Smart Women podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to faux fur jackets and kale smoothies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, annie McCubbin, and, as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own share of really bad decisions. Not my husband, I don't mean him, though I did go through some shockers to find him, and I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the why Smart Women podcast. Firstly, I'd like to apologise that this episode is coming out a day late.
Speaker 2:That was my fault.
Speaker 1:No, it was not your fault.
Speaker 2:Well, it was kind of.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello, david Good morning, good morning. It's the 19th of September.
Speaker 2:Sorry, should I have waited until you introduced?
Speaker 1:me. Yes, be quiet.
Speaker 2:That's right. This is your podcast. It's my podcast. Shut up.
Speaker 1:It's the 19th of September and today I am broadcasting from the northern beaches in Sydney, New South Wales, in beautiful, sunny, calm Australia.
Speaker 2:We've had great weather this week.
Speaker 1:It's been really beautiful. This is a very, very nice time to live in Australia. Spring in Australia is a little bit unpredictable, but it's beautiful and it's sunny and sort of not too hot. It's just delicious here. Anyway, sorry about yesterday. We had an incident happen in our neighbourhood. I won't go into that, but we had to be of assistance so we couldn't do the podcast. But here we are today.
Speaker 2:We might end up talking about that one day.
Speaker 1:One day we will, but we won't today because we don't know enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:But we will, I think, hopefully talk about that, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:And a neighbour who's the victim of fuzzy thinking. You know precisely the thing that I think that you're trying to combat with your podcast, you know we can talk in theoretical terms about how sort of failures of cognition can lead to, you know, either comical errors or Serious. Or very serious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we will as soon as we know a little bit more about what has occurred. I would like to talk about it because the lack of critical thinking in the situation is breathtaking and the consequences are appalling. Anyway, I'm just sitting here and I've just seen the back of my arm in a mirror.
Speaker 2:That's never a good thing to look at.
Speaker 1:I'm really disappointed in it why?
Speaker 2:but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's part of you and therefore it is perfect in its own way.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, the back of my arm. Well, okay, let's just look at this in terms of body image and perfectionism. Hello, ryder, the golden grudel has just entered the room, so I, as any Hi darling, he's patting my dog. Hi, any regular listeners will know that I get up at 6 o'clock every morning and I go to the gym. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:Well, I do, I don't talk about it that much. I don't talk about it that much, I know you do. I don't talk about it that much, you don't. I don't, as regular listeners would know Well.
Speaker 1:I occasionally mention it. I don't socially go about my day talking about my gym routine. Anyway, I do, and I work quite hard at the gym doing cardio and also weights, and yet I have just noticed the back of my arm and it's really disappointed me. It's sort of flabby and in Australia we call it so if you wave your arm, I'm doing it now you can do this yourself, listeners.
Speaker 2:You're going to talk about tuck shop arms.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listeners you might like to do this. So if you take your arm and you wave like you're waving at somebody, does the flesh underneath your arm and you wave like you're waving at somebody, does the the flesh underneath your arm move. And we call that in australia tuck shop arms it's cool.
Speaker 2:Why do they call them tuck shop arms? Because women in the tuck shops go who ordered the cheese sandwich and the small chocolate milk, and they do that in their way yeah, and and for those outside of the Australian culture, yes, this is the kitchen, the canteen, the dining room in the school, and in Australia we call it the tuck shop.
Speaker 1:The tuck shop, and so the ladies that work in the mothers generally, that work in the tuck shop, are always calling out and saying John, John did you order the small bag of twisties and the red frog? Come over here and get it Anywhere like that.
Speaker 2:The Vegemite crust. The Vegemite crust.
Speaker 1:That's so funny.
Speaker 2:Anyway. So Tuck shopper, are you saying that you don't have tuck shop arms?
Speaker 1:No, but the thing is what I? No, I probably don't. And the thing is, for my age I'm probably in okay shape. But what's with the body?
Speaker 2:perfection. You're in mint condition as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1:It sounds like something you preserve Mint. It's like an antique.
Speaker 2:No, I'm thinking of a chocolate mint biscuit.
Speaker 1:No you're not, you're not thinking of that. The word mint has an inference in it that infers that you've eaten too many chocolate mint biscuits.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't. In it that infers that you've eaten too many chocolate mint biscuits. No, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:The word mint is something that you would refer to like an antique and you'd go this antique is worth a lot because it's in mint condition.
Speaker 2:Now do you know where the word comes from mint? Like from the mint, the mint, that's right. And what does the mint do? Makes, coins Makes coins and so when it comes out of the coin factory, when it comes out of the mint, it's in perfect condition. And are you sort of disappointed that you're not in perfect condition?
Speaker 1:Yes, and isn't that interesting that we, I think that our oh, wow the pressure, that our, wow, the pressure, the pressure on women to um hold back um time to remain youthful and and and fit and slim and and attractive and and and pretty and is awful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like and I, it's what you said to me last night when I was going out to dinner. I was going out to dinner with friends.
Speaker 2:We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 1:And I was fussing about the menu.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to talk about before you went out. Oh, my God, okay, so so I've got to tell I've no, no, no, no, I want to talk about before you went out. Oh my God, Okay, so I've got to tell you a story. All right, go on, tell on me, so you know. Earlier in the afternoon I think it was when we were walking the dogs, you know Annie kind of dropped the news that she'd gone to Country Road and bought herself a new dress.
Speaker 1:It's really nice.
Speaker 2:And the way yeah, it's really nice, you know, and and and the way yeah, it's a really nice dress, um, and and I love the way that you sort of effortlessly, effortlessly included in the in in the news about the, the purchasing of the new dress, that it was on sale yeah, it was on sale.
Speaker 1:It was virtually free. I got a.
Speaker 2:I got a. I got a free dress from country road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, it's white. Everybody who's listening. It's sort of oh, it's sort of cream. Um, it's got a shirt maker top and a very nice, structured, interesting panel thing going over its mid-calf with pockets and it's very fitting around the middle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So can you picture that? It's very nice Very fitted Very nice white dress, cream or cream Polished cotton. Polished cotton. Polished cotton, and Annie appears before me in the dress With black boots.
Speaker 1:With black boots I looked really good.
Speaker 2:She looked fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2:And this was a special moment because she'd planted the seed of the launch of the new dress earlier in the afternoon. Launch the launch of the new dress earlier in the afternoon, because it was practically free from Country Road. And there she was and I said, oh, you look fantastic, it's beautiful. You know, you look amazing.
Speaker 1:You didn't say amazing. No, you made that up. No, I said fantastic, you have post.
Speaker 2:No, I was full of praise.
Speaker 1:I want to record it. You never said amazing.
Speaker 2:I was full of praise. I said you look fantastic.
Speaker 1:Hurry up. I'm really hungry, it's absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2:And then, at the end of probably about six incredibly effusive positive comments, I said it's like you're wearing a dress that would be worn by Aunt Lydia, except it's white. Now, okay, a white Aunt Lydia dress, hang on, hang on, would be worn by Aunt Lydia, except it's white.
Speaker 1:Now, okay, a white Aunt Lydia dress. Hang on, hang on, let's unpack Aunt Lydia.
Speaker 2:Aunt Lydia, yeah.
Speaker 1:Structured. Listen you make references to Aunt Lydia. Okay, you tried to do it in my book.
Speaker 2:Not everybody knows who Aunt Lydia is Okay Handmaid's.
Speaker 1:Tale the Handmaid's Tale.
Speaker 2:Aunt Lydia is the Awful. Is the woman who is charged with the responsibility of keeping the other women in line.
Speaker 1:And she's awful and very mean and punitive and horrible.
Speaker 2:And also, and she wears these structured dresses.
Speaker 1:No, there's nothing like that dress. It was a bad reference. I don't want to look like mean Aunt Lydia.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you didn't look like mean.
Speaker 1:Aunt Lydia. Well, you shouldn't have mentioned Aunt Lydia, because she wears dark colours, and this was cream. Yeah, but I know you're referencing the style of the dress. Anyway, it's a very nice shirt and make a mid-car. It is nothing like what they would wear on the Handmaid's Tale and he was very unimpressed by the. I was very unimpressed. Very unimpressed by the Aunt Lydia comment Well hence, as we know, by the fact that I've seen my arms in the back of this mirror and I'm now disappointed Clearly.
Speaker 2:Good thing about that dress is that it's full arms Covers my arms. Full arms to the wrists.
Speaker 1:It's not actually.
Speaker 2:It's short sleeve Anyway. So yeah, but I mean you know I had uttered at least six or seven you know, really positive complimentary words. I was sort of worried that I was being overly effusive, and so I thought I'd just kind of temper it with a little joke at the end of it.
Speaker 1:The tempering was unnecessary and he was very unimpressed. I was very unimpressed.
Speaker 2:And she said don't you? You know how could you say such a dreadful thing or something like that?
Speaker 1:I said why do you have to bring Aunt Lydia into the?
Speaker 2:thing Into the conversation to which I rebuttaled immediately, quickly you can't rebuttal, you can rebut, I can rebut, I can rebut. Whatever I did, you rebutted Whatever I did. I sprang back with the why did you pick on the one sort of negative, humorous thing that I said after I said all those?
Speaker 1:positives. It's not funny, it was funny to me. Yeah, but I'm the recipient of the comment, oh come on.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So back to the notion of women and perfectionism and body image. You know no wonder that. You know I've got a fairly high level of awareness around this stuff and, um, you know, if I am still somehow in the thrall of the way I have to look at my age, no wonder younger women who haven't yet procured a partner are worried. And when does it? You know what? Why? Because the whole fitness industry is now full of the fact that we no longer, you know, we're no longer um talking about um, just being, you know, thin. What we now want to be is just really fit and strong. So that's the, the new sort of modalities, um, but the underpinning, um, the underpinning message is the same is that women have to look something. Yeah, you have to look.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say that, um that. It was entirely a sensibility that exists in women.
Speaker 1:So what's it like for men?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, okay, so I had a look at the ad of, I think Annie might have mentioned in previous weeks, we're doing acting classes. We're doing acting classes for adults locally and we took the iPhone along to last week's class. I shot it really well and Annie shot a whole lot of stuff and threw it to Harry, and Harry cut it into a little trailer and that appeared on social media yesterday it looked really good. And I looked a bit like the character played by Nathan Lane in the Gilded Age.
Speaker 2:You do not look Sort of squat and rotund, a bit like a 65-year-old Zach Garafinakis, a bit like a 65-year-old Zach Garafanakis. Okay, so you catch sight of your tuck shop arms in the mirror.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I looked at that video and I went, oh my God.
Speaker 1:So yes, I felt about as far from the um, the, uh, the example of the, the, the male aesthetic, um, beauty, um, as I could possibly be kind of, you know, it's so interesting, isn't it? How we? Because I, I looked at that, what harry had cut and I didn't, I didn't even notice, I didn't notice you, I, I saw you there and I thought you looked interesting. Yeah, but isn't it interesting how our focus immediately goes to these perceived flaws and how the brain, yeah, how we're just intensely interested whereas, of course, nobody else is looking.
Speaker 2:And immediately there is like a self-inflicted psychological wound.
Speaker 1:And what is that?
Speaker 2:Well, it says that you're not perfect. You should be perfect. There's an expectation that you should be perfect. If you're perfect, you get the ideal partner you'll get hired.
Speaker 1:We've got that.
Speaker 2:You'll be a good person.
Speaker 1:What's that?
Speaker 2:You've got the ideal partner, yeah we've already got the ideal partner, you and I well, I know that I've got the ideal partner been got. There still is this mechanism that is deep in the mind that says I'm not perfect yet, and um, and look, you know, um, I'm just just allow me to to go on a little diversion for a moment, because it does kind of make it relevant how this stuff plays out. Um, the, the, uh, the specter of fascism, you know, of global fasc fascism is on the horizon at the moment in terms of the way that some world leaders are behaving at the moment, and I saw a documentary the other day about the design aesthetics of fascists and it was looking very clearly at Mussolini and Adolf Hitler pre-World War II.
Speaker 1:And obviously we are looking at this because of what's going on in America.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, you had to mention it.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean otherwise. You need a context.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:There's some fascistic elements.
Speaker 2:Okay. So those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. The way that both of those men, hitler and Mussolini, how they employed design and aesthetics, was to further the fascist ideology. You know great open. You know courts with statues, statues of perfect human forms in heroic poses Right. And the way that that kind of fascistic art and design sensibility works on the human psyche is that you are continually reminded that you are less than perfect. You are less than perfect, but the state, the ideology, the regime is perfect and you are small. You are small, you are imperfect, and what that does psychologically is it makes you biased towards just falling into line.
Speaker 1:So being compliant.
Speaker 2:Being compliant, which is what a fascist leader needs. He needs the population to feel bad about themselves and only have a sense of identity when they can relate to this big regime state.
Speaker 1:Which means I mustn't question the state because I'm imperfect. The state is perfect. It's going to keep me safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:So that's an example which gives us some clues to the psychological hook that snares people who might look at themselves on a video and go, gee, I look fat. Or they might catch the back of their arm in a mirror and, you know, apply the rather mean tuck shop arm label to it. Perfection is a perfectionism can be a real trap. So, annie, I believe that you've done a little bit of research into the condition of perfectionism and what you can do in order to release yourself from the chains that bind you when you're perfectionistic.
Speaker 1:I guess we've both got elements of perfectionism. I know I was fussing last night when I said to you, what am I going to eat? I was looking at the menu of the place. I was going to dinner and I didn't want to eat a burger.
Speaker 2:What did you end up eating?
Speaker 1:Black beef and black bean sauce. Okay.
Speaker 2:Is that because it had the title beans in the title I?
Speaker 1:don't know why, anyway, and you said, of course, okay, is that? Because it had the title beans in the title? I don't know why I thought it was Anyway. And you said well, most people, when they go to the gym every day, they will just eat what they like.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's why some people do go to the gym, so they can eat what they like. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's not me, is it? I'm still careful, yeah, so I mean perfection. Perfectionism is the personality trait that's characterized by setting excessively high standards.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you can either set these standards for yourself, and, of course, the perfectionism standards are so high you're never going to get there. And what perfectionism does is it results in terrible procrastination.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because if I can't do it perfectly, I may as well not do it.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Hello. And I think it's so interesting because I've got I sound like your dad, I've got three female clients at the moment that I'm coaching in their career coaching and all of them have this one or a couple of them especially, and this one or a couple of them especially, their perfectionism is so high that they can't do what they need to do in the course of a day, in case it's not perfect.
Speaker 1:So they distract themselves all day with other activity Like so you know, if I go home and I fold the washing or I do this series of tasks, at least in the course of the day I can go tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. I did that.
Speaker 1:So, instead of doing something that's aligned to your purpose, like I want to do this because it's going to further my sense of achievement, I'm going to do small task things that at least I do something, but actually the achievement level is very low, which avoids getting to really the thing that you should be doing to achieve the goal you want to do, because if you don't do it perfectly, you may as well not do it, and the fear of failure, um, is very, very high in perfectionism and, of course, the very, very harsh self-criticism yep so then you end up going I didn't do it well, I'm a crappy human being.
Speaker 1:And then the stress levels go up and you feel more and more inadequate. And it's just this terrible cycle of perfectionism and the what do you put things off?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, perfectionism and procrastination. So perfectionism and procrastination are really, really strongly yes, now I'm going to surprise you, go on yeah, okay because I know, I know that if um in a, um in a, in a candid conversation, if you were asked to describe me, you would say that david is fundamentally, you know, uh, messy. He can operate within mess. You know, perfectionism is not important to him no, I don't think that's right well, good, good.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's contextually different.
Speaker 2:Because I think that there's actually a quirk that is common to people who have ADHD or ADD or, you know, dopamine deficit disorder, whatever you want to call it. You know, we sometimes look at people and we go they're really messy. You know, they can operate within mess. You messy, they can operate within mess. They're clearly not interested in having a perfect environment. Now, it's actually the inverse, it's the absolute opposite. So I mean, speaking from personal experience, I know that my motivation level rises and falls with the promise of actually being able to finish something perfectly. So I might procrastinate with a proposal or a session design, or I might procrastinate with some tasks around the house if I suspect I'm not going to be able to do it perfectly, and so what I will tend to do is to go to the things that I know that I can do perfectly the things that I can't which are what Eating.
Speaker 1:That's really funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. You know stuff goes into a plate. If I eat everything that's on the plate, then I will have done that perfectly.
Speaker 1:No more can be asked of me, you might even think about putting your plate in the dishwasher when you've completed that, okay right.
Speaker 2:So you know the tidy up. You know I will do things in the tidy up that I think that I can complete perfectly, you know. But maybe I won't. You know, because I don't feel I have time to put all the clothes back in the cupboard or organize all the cables and get them back into their appropriate place. If I don't have time, I just won't do it because I can't do it perfectly Makes sense, and you do that over a lifetime. Two things happen. Number one, your tolerance for being able to operate in a mess increases because you just have to, yeah. And secondly, part of you okay, speaking from personal experience, part of me knows that I've actually failed at something.
Speaker 1:So what happens is that Are you failed at what?
Speaker 2:Well, I've failed at doing the things that you know. Stitch in time saves nine. You know, put the plate back in the dishwasher, put the clothes in the cupboard, organize the cables in the studio, in the studio. You know, when you look around and you see mess and you see things that have been neglected. Yes, that perfectionism, procrastination, you know, hook does its worst. I still notice that I have failed to achieve perfection.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But you just kind of store it up in a vault of disappointments. That's awful. Well, I think that that's the condition that a lot of people carry, and this is why people who have got my particular branch of the neurodiversity tree often get very, very defensive, because the suspicion that I have, and the suspicion that I think other people have, is that I just don't care, that I'm careless.
Speaker 1:I've never thought that. Okay, I have never thought. Oh God, can I just say something? That behind you I'm looking at a shelf. It looks like it's about to collapse.
Speaker 2:It's not going to collapse.
Speaker 1:Okay, just saying All right.
Speaker 2:I have built that perfectly. All right, it probably could collapse one day. Yes, I better get around to fixing it.
Speaker 1:It's interesting about yeah, so I get it, yeah, and then of course, I get that tolerance of. I sort of do get the tolerance of mess, and of course what happens to me in a messy environment is it? It immediately triggers sensory overload. I just can't function because my eyes are constantly drawn to the things in the environment that are messy and then, of course, it increases cortisol levels mess.
Speaker 1:So, I have to start every day with getting the environment ordered before I can function and start my thing right, which means I have to clean up the kitchen and make the bed and resolve the mess in the lounge room.
Speaker 2:See, maybe that's something you should work on Shut up, don't even go there.
Speaker 1:No, don't even go there. No, no, no, don't go there. Do not go there. Let me go. No, no, no, no, no, go there. Let me go. No, no, no, no no, go somewhere.
Speaker 2:Just let me go somewhere, okay, because this is my thought and it's not just to get you to stop nagging me about the mess, right?
Speaker 1:Clutter competes for attention, taxing your brain's ability to focus and reducing mental resources. Also, the effects of mess is exacerbated in women. Annie's reading from her iPhone at at the moment, as shown by studies linking cluttered homes to higher cortisol levels with increased anxiety symptoms in women she's not sharing information that she's, you know, processed before she's reading off. No, I know this to be true, but that's relevant. Okay, low grade fight flight exactly.
Speaker 2:So what we're talking, all the things that you're talking about in other contexts. Say, if we're getting people to do presentation training and they get nervous and they get fight-flight, what we do is we help them to deal with the fight-flight so that they can be present and they can operate Okay. So let's wind that back into something like looking into the mirror and seeing tuck shop arms your words, not mine. That's causing you psychological distress and discomfort.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's separate to the mess.
Speaker 2:What you're saying. You can't develop psychological flexibility so that, when you see things that are imperfect, they don't distract you in the way that you just described. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
Speaker 1:What is wrong with you? I can't believe that you're defending. No, I can't that you're defending. No, I can't.
Speaker 2:I'm not defending anything, because disorder builds on itself.
Speaker 1:Many, many people I'm not alone can't operate. I can't. I'm sitting in this room and there's a tea towel on a cushion and a backpack.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's a green screen and another bag. The dog's there.
Speaker 2:The only reason why you're sitting in this room doing this podcast now is because I managed to get the equipment sorted out.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't spend time putting cushions away and hanging tea towels over, you know, assigned hooks, et cetera.
Speaker 1:You know, anyway, it's what's practical, it's a spectrum, it's not one or the other. Okay, it's really not Not one or the other. Okay, it's really not. But anyway, so the thing is, I get the perfectionism thing with the messy thing and I think we do okay, I think we manage.
Speaker 2:I think we do okay.
Speaker 1:I think we manage okay. I sort of keep things outside this room, where this is the hub of our creative endeavor. I suppose it's the engine room. It's the engine room, I the engine room. I do keep things out there pretty okay, which I think you like, that you walk in and the tables I keep stuff out there, okay as well no, you, I do and you just, goodness, gracious me.
Speaker 2:This is availability bias no, it's not no, no, it's primary attribution error?
Speaker 1:no, it's, that's what. Yes, it is, you don't notice when I pick stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're back at confirmation bias.
Speaker 1:yeah well, you don't. You don't notice when I pick stuff up? Oh, we're back at confirmation bias.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you don't notice the stuff that I do. You know when I put your shoes back in the right place.
Speaker 1:It's erratic. You will make the bed two mornings out of seven.
Speaker 2:Anyway, listen to this Erratic.
Speaker 1:I've got to tell you one thing about me this morning off that subject, because we're not going to resolve that. It's ethereal what is ethereal?
Speaker 2:oh, I don't know it's a book? No, it's the wrong word it's uh, it's quicksilver, it's um, it's um david you're searching for for listen to this.
Speaker 1:I went to the eye specialist this morning because my eyes, since I had a virus and since I had covid, have been really sore and dry right and I went to the eye specialist and she said to me that COVID can trigger dry eye. Now I have to go on steroid drops for six weeks to try and resolve this inflammation in my eyes. I know it's been really crappy, but I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you something when I'm going to tell you something when I was in there.
Speaker 2:Was there something to do with the lift? Yeah, did you have a little lift drama?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did. Oh, poor you. So I got in, I didn't like it. I didn't like the lift. It was small, it was at one side, it was really small.
Speaker 2:Was it unexpected that you'd have to get in a lift? No, I knew it. I'd anticipated it. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:I got in.
Speaker 2:But it was small.
Speaker 1:It was really small and immediately the sense of I don't want to lie, I don't like it in here.
Speaker 2:Yes. Anyway, I got in and I pressed the button for the first floor. Why didn't you go up the stairs? Well, there's another drama, because, in case I can't get out, oh right, yeah, the concrete vault, the concrete bunker drama.
Speaker 1:So I got in and I pressed two and it was really slow.
Speaker 2:I thought you pressed one. Why I pressed one? You pressed one.
Speaker 1:And the lift was really slow and I could feel the rising sense of I didn't do anything I should have done, which is to spell my name backwards, to count backwards from 1,300 by seven, because, as the listeners know, I am claustrophobic.
Speaker 2:Did you ask me for help?
Speaker 1:Yes. So as it seemed to get to the second floor first floor and then it paused for a really long time and my brain went right, today's the day and I started going David, david, pathetic. Door opened and then I thought I'm not getting back in that lift, which is the worst thing you can do is to be avoidant.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But I said to the eye specialist, I said that lift is awful and she said, yes, it's been breaking down a lot.
Speaker 2:Oh, no terrible.
Speaker 1:And I said she said that, she said that there's no way you're ever going to get in that lift again. I said, right, I'm not getting back in that lift. And she said, no, fair enough. And then I had a big old whinge to the receptionist about it. It was so nice and she said oh well, you can take the staircase. And I said I've also got a thing about being stuck in a concrete bunker.
Speaker 2:And then she said to me Did she offer you the window and a rope ladder?
Speaker 1:She told me she said I have been stuck. She said in me. She said I have been stuck. She said in the city. Who are these?
Speaker 2:people. She said, in a stairwell for hours oh, my goodness, my worst, that's your worst nightmare so do you know what I made her do?
Speaker 1:open the window no, she said, I'll take you to the you made.
Speaker 2:You made her walk, walk you out of the building. You did virtually.
Speaker 1:She stood at the top of the stairs. I said I just want to know that that door opens and she said I totally get it and she was really nice. So that's me with my ongoing issues with claustrophobia, and sometimes I'm really good.
Speaker 1:And today, and I think it is when there is, I think when my levels of um cortisol no, just arousal so I know today we've got I'm doing the podcast and then we've got to do two hours training in the afternoon, then I've got to do other stuff and and I've sent my book out to a couple of people, which has made my arousal levels are higher. And I think if you're a little bit topped up and then something else comes on on top of that, then you're more likely to be managing um, you know, in a less optimum manner um, can I take an opportunity just to just to praise something?
Speaker 1:oh, is it about me? Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, to praise you for, yes, what?
Speaker 2:because so we were talking about the tyranny of perfectionism before. Yeah, and we can apply that to a task. I have to do it perfectly. We can apply it to our bodies. You know, I have to have, you know, a perfect butt, do you?
Speaker 1:think I do. Yeah, of course you do, go on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, notice what I did then and but also Notice what I did then. But also, if we're prepared to say actually the better way to go about it is to not be so perfectionistic, I don't think we should be so perfectionistic about our psychology.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's good. I did forgive myself and I laughed.
Speaker 2:Well, just to accept the fact that a disorganized psychology is actually the human condition, and while there are things that you can do in order to develop greater flexibility, to reduce the amount of self-inflicted pressure or damage that you do to yourself in terms of beating yourself up to actually, you know, if you notice that you are having a less than perfect psychological response, you don't make that an issue, you just go. I am imperfect, my psychology is imperfect, it is imperfect.
Speaker 2:But what's the next thing that I can do and actually to go in the direction that I want?
Speaker 1:to? Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:So your decision to ask the receptionist to hold the fire escape door open while you navigated the perilous single flight of steps to the bottom floor, that was actually the most constructive thing that you could have done in that particular moment. I mean, you could have sort of said, okay, you know, I have to, I have to, you know, apply all of these particular techniques so that I have a perfect exit from the building. But really is that necessary?
Speaker 1:And also I don't particularly care. I didn't really care. I wasn't like, oh no, they're going to think I'm an idiot. I was like I don't care, I don't like it and I'm just going to manage it, and I was sort of all right.
Speaker 2:And the bludgeon. You know the whip of psychological perfection. You can see that it actually flows out into other contexts. You know when actually believing something, you have to have perfect belief in order to belong to a particular tribe.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you mean. Okay, that's really complicated.
Speaker 2:Hurry up, we've got to finish so if you want to have less drama in personal relationships, um, just just just notice how, the, how, the, the spirit of perfectionism, the expectations of perfectionism are actually getting in the way of you yeah just having a a nice, easy, functional, imperfect relationship yeah, that's right, because the the more perfectionism you sort of internalize about yourself, the more you're going to then project it out.
Speaker 1:That's right and I do like that stoic notion which is, you know, I've been investigating stoicism what can you control and what can't you control, and I think that's a really good place to end today's podcast. Yep, I survived the lift and the bunker. I'm going to now go and get the drops. Thank you science. Because science, because I've been to a wonderfully, because I've just been to a specialist who spent years studying the eye. I know what's wrong with my eyes and now science has provided a way to fix it. Yes, so thank you science. And I've got something wrong with my eyes, and now science has provided a way to fix it, yes.
Speaker 2:So thank you, science, and I've got something for you as well.
Speaker 1:Oh what.
Speaker 2:Okay, what I'd like to do this afternoon is to introduce you to this really good tricep exercise. Oh my God, to fix my arms, yeah yeah, thanks, david. That'll tighten up those. Thanks, david, that'll tighten up those.
Speaker 1:Thanks, David Okay.
Speaker 2:Tricep muscles.
Speaker 1:You be quiet now. Thank you so much for tuning in. Smart women. Apologies again for the lateness of this episode. As always, stay safe, stay well and keep your critical thinking hats on. See you later.
Speaker 1:Bye, thanks for tuning in to why Smart Women with me, annie McCubbin, I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut, if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, in a car park, in a bar or in your own home, please, please respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together, we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy and keep your critical thinking hat shiny.
Speaker 1:This is Annie McCubbin signing off from why Smart Women See you later. Mccubbin signing off from why Smart Women See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. No-transcript.
