Why Smart Women Podcast
Welcome to the Why Smart Women Podcast, hosted by Annie McCubbin. We explore why women sometimes make the wrong choices and offer insightful guidance for better, informed decisions. Through engaging discussions, interviews, and real-life stories, we empower women to harness their intelligence, question their instincts, and navigate life's complexities with confidence. Join us each week to uncover the secrets of smarter decision-making and celebrate the brilliance of women everywhere.
Why Smart Women Podcast
Annie and the man in the lift.
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You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the podcast that helps smart women work out why we repeatedly make the wrong decisions and how to make better ones. From relationships, career choices, finances, to photo jackets and chaos movies. Every moment of every day, we're making decisions. Let's make them good ones. I'm your host, I'm in a cabin, and as a woman of a certain age, I've made my own pair of really bad decisions. Not my at all. I don't think I did go through some doctors to find it. And I wish this podcast had been around to save me from myself. This podcast will give you insights into the working of your own brain, which will blow your mind. I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I'm recording, and you are listening on this day. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land. Well, hello, smart women, and welcome back to the Why Smart Women Podcast. Today I am broadcasting from the northern beaches of Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, where it's about to get to 38 degrees Celsius, which is a heat wave. So there's all these things about not lighting fires and staying hydrated and taking care of the elderly and making sure that you're okay and keeping the air conditioning on because it's stinking, stinking hot. And out the western suburbs of Sydney, it's going to be in the low forties.
SPEAKER_01:Is it still going to get there? Is it going to get that hot?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. That's what they say. Yeah. Hello, David.
SPEAKER_01:Hello there. Yeah, I was I was out in it this morning and I was uh surprised how temperate it felt. And maybe it's just because we're next to the ocean and it's dry heat. It's air that's been moving across the country, so it's not that awful kind of depilitating equatorial humidity that really knocks you sideways.
SPEAKER_00:No. So anyway, so a couple of things that happened to me in the last week or so which disturbed me and it made me think about the safety of women. And the first thing that happened was I got into the lift in our building. Now let's remember here that I'm a woman of a certain age, you know, I'm well over 50. So it's not like I'm some nubile, you know, 20-year-old standing there in a short pair of shorts. There's anything wrong with that, but you would expect that sort of person to have more of a reaction to them.
SPEAKER_01:No, um I mean I find you very striking, you know. Thank you. Which is which is which which again I hope is not a a bad thing, you know, when you when you decide to striking is striking is something.
SPEAKER_00:Look, I'm just an I'm just a normal woman, but I'm not young, is my point. I'm just a normal woman. So I get into the lift.
SPEAKER_01:I'm biased as well.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I get into the lift and a man gets in with me, an older man, probably late 60s, early 70s, and he looked at me and he said, Well, gee, I hope the lift breaks down. And I said, Ah. And he said, although I'd probably need a manual to work out what to do, it's been so long. And then we got out of the lift and he said, Oh, I had a rape whistle once, but when I blew it, it didn't work. Anyway, so this is this sort of you know, male whatever you want to call it, is pretty common, but it's more my reaction or lack of it that struck me in the ensuing days. Because you you would probably describe me as a fairly forthright person, wouldn't you, David?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, I've heard that story before, so that's that's not the first time I've heard that. And uh and and in the retelling, it just makes me wince and recoil and flare up. Rape whistle?
SPEAKER_00:What the f anyway, so I'm not a I am not a retiring violet, I'm I'm quite a forthright person. And yet I smiled at him, sort of half, I don't know, sort of gave a little half laugh and then walked away. I didn't push back, I didn't make a joke of him, I didn't say anything smart or witty, I didn't diminish him, I did nothing. I just walked away, and so I guess he then would have thought, well, that went well, that interaction in the lift with the curly haired woman. So then the next thing that happened is yesterday I was coming home from the city on the bus and a kerfuffle ensued. I was on the top deck of the bus.
SPEAKER_01:Big yellow beeline bus.
SPEAKER_00:And this kerfuffle ensued downstairs, and there was a male voice very loud, very violent, using terrible language, and throwing things. There was like crash, bang, throwing things around the bus. Anyway, so we all, the other passengers, we all began looking at each other, and it was getting near my stop. And another woman looked at me and she came over and she sat next to me and she said, I meant to get off here, but I'm too scared to get off. He's at the bottom of the stairs. And then we turned around, and there were two women that could look down the stairs, and I said, Where is he? And they said, He's right just at the bottom of the stairs, throwing things. And um, so then we sort of sat there and we thought, Well, you know, and she was shaking this woman. She said, I can't stand being around this, I hate it. So God knows, you know, what that was doing to her nervous system. And then we sort of got near the stop and some men stood up and I said to the men, Can you please go first? Can you go first? And we held a hand and I said, I'll go after them and you come with me. Anyway, this we went down this very narrow little, you know, top deck to the bottom deck. And by the time we got to the bottom of the stairs, he'd got off the bus. But there was sort of detritus, there was sort of things had been thrown about the bus. It was really strange. Anyway, I got off and she said to Oh God, that was horrible. I hated that, I hate being around that. And I said, I know it was terrible. We sort of gave each other a hug, sort of like we've been in a war zone, and we're only in DY and you know, Sydney, nice safe Sydney, and then I walked away and I thought, what are we meant to do? How are we meant to behave? How are we meant to respond? How do we push back? And is this current environment where men feel entitled to say sexual things to a woman after being in her company from a for about, I don't know, three seconds. And I don't know, maybe he was having a psychotic episode. I'm gonna put my money on the fact that he was using ice, which makes people really aggressive. This male aggression is it's really awful, and I feel quite powerless in the face of it, David. Anything to say on that? No.
SPEAKER_01:Look, so much, but I thought I'd just let you um sort of in in the retelling, that was gripping. Did did the bus slow down at all?
SPEAKER_00:It was a female bus driver as well.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. So when you were aware of the kafuffle and things, the bus driver didn't stop the bus.
SPEAKER_00:No, the bus driver and someone said she's probably calling the DY police, which I imagine is what she was doing. She would have been calling the local police. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And but no, the bus just was heading towards the bus stop. And then I thought I don't want to get off one stop later because I was in a hurry and I wanted to get home.
SPEAKER_01:But what yeah. I mean look, my first question is how have you answered it? You know, why do you think? You know? Why do I think what? I've seen you go toe-to-toe with people when you feel that some important rule has been transgressed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, as I said, I'm not I'm not incapable of pushing back.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. You took on a bunch of um uh boys on the on the front stairs of of this place. Have you told that story?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, the boys that were to having swearing in and they'd got into a fight with some other man. It's pretty violent in the quadrangle.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And that but and and then he strode up to them and pointed to the ringleader of one of them and shut him down. You know, you are not going to say anything racist. You know, you better not be this better not be, you know, a racist.
SPEAKER_00:I told the girls there were there were these, those 14 poor 14-year-old girls hanging around in the background as well. I said, just go home. Just this is not a good environment, just go home. And then another man came and he said of the police being called because it was this big kerfuffle. And I said, I don't know. And he sat with me, and that and then when David arrived, he said, I'm going now. I wanted to make sure you were okay. So he was he was nice in making sure I was always I never felt worried about that. I'm not frightened of a bunch of 14-year-olds.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay, so you know that's what you're capable of in those kind of dangerous situations. You can do that, but when you It's not dangerous, though, right?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And that's the point. In a lift. In a lift, in a lift, you're vulnerable. You're vulnerable on a on a bus with bus with somebody who's who's violent, you're vulnerable. Um, and I think I guess what happens is you just go into the sort of a survival mode. I didn't feel frightened of the guy in the lift. I was immediately appalled, but just my responsiveness was just when I look back, was just sort of I did nothing. It was sort of pathetic. And and and I guess I'm I'm also reading Clown Town, which is the book that's been written about Andrew Tate. I don't know if listeners are aware of who Andrew Tate is, but he was a I was gonna go and get the book.
SPEAKER_01:Look, let's just call him an influencer. I mean, he's uh he's look, I I can't speak with great authority about Andrew Tate because whenever I s smell the presence of that person, I walk in the opposite direction. Have done for a long time. But from what I know, he served time in prison in a European country, and I've uh it can't be is it Bulgaria um or Romania? I think it's Romania. Um he has been involved in the trafficking of women, and that is the that is the the charge upon which he was imprisoned. But his the damage that he does through his influencer activity, I can't even tell you you know which platform he's you know most of the.
SPEAKER_00:Well he's on, he's he's he's absolute he was absolutely huge.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Misogynist, you know, and taught men how to be duplicitous and play psychological actions to essentially emotionally enslave their women. And I think that the greatest achievement is that you could get a woman to prostitute herself and pay you the money for it. You know, it's it's like a really vile stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Uh but his his his his premise, because I'm halfway through the book, is that he runs this or he ran this thing called the war room, and men would come there and physically fight each other. And the whole thing is men have to learn to be physically violent. Like violence is the only way you're going to have an impact in the world, and your value is assessed by how many expensive watches, fast cars, and girls in bikinis you have.
SPEAKER_01:I think the power of the message is not just that you get to have this stuff, but it's somehow packaged up in, you know, we give you the license to be true to your nature. So that becomes the the hero's journey. You know, I'm going to be true to my nature. It is my nature to dominate others, and I am going to be expert in doing that. You know, it's vile. The other reason why I can't abore Michael sorry, Michael Tate, Andrew Tate, is he it is so unintelligent.
SPEAKER_00:The people who are consuming it, and even the mat I think are they, yes, are they actually unintelligent or are they desperate? Because we know we've got the incels following him, so incels are the involuntary celibate. But the thing about it is that the underlying message is that women have it easy because all you have to do is be pretty. Men don't have it easy because they have to acquire wealth and power in the world, whereas women have it easy, and that men ultimately have the right to do with women what they want. Now he is a very, very popular influencer, he's massive where he was. He doesn't believe in mental health issues. All he believes in is that men have to give him money, the messages are just really weird. He comes from a really weird background and a really weird father who had the same sort of psychopathic, grandiose notion of himself. The thing about Andrew Tate, he's not even good looking. Like, oh my god, he's awful. Anyway, I think he was a boxer or something in his early days. Anyway, a fighter of some kind. So we've got a fight, but this misogynistic message is common and it's been picked up by other influences, and the message is still in 2025 that women are property, right? And you can say and do what you want with them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So and to be your best self, you actually, you know, you indulge in doing that. So that's how it cops into the personal development movement, you know, young men who want to be the best that they can be. So, so you know supportive Andrew Tate says, Yes, it's so hard for you boys, you know.
SPEAKER_00:But come with me and learn to fight properly and make money and then turn your turn your girlfriends into prostitutes, and you can do whatever you want. And we've got on the other side of that, we've got the whole tradwive movement. And the tradwivement is there's wow, like just wow, where the man is the head of the family and she never makes a decision without conferring with him first. There's even some, I think it's Pete Hedsteth from the States who's Secretary of War who said that women don't need to have the right to vote because they have to vote the way the husband votes. Um so the woman stays home, takes care of the family, accedes to her husband's request, never ever withholds sex from him, so he can demand sex wherever he wants, never pushes back, cooks nice meals, is compliant, and the man therefore takes care of her. And you if you look at Andrew Tate, he would absolutely agree with that framework.
SPEAKER_01:That's right, and they'll cherry-pick history and they'll basically build the argument that it is our natures to work in ways that harmonizes this dynamic. So, again, it's personal development um in its in its um stickiness, you know, a lot of people looking to themselves wanting to be better. And this is a way where you get sort of the dopamine hit of power over other people, and some people are worse on that, worse with that than others. But this was the culture of the group that you saw with the fracker outside the flash.
SPEAKER_00:100%. They had that absolute I'm in charge. There was a lot of sort of sort of pointing to their groins and hip thrusting, and I won't use the language that they use because I can't on the podcast, but it was very violent. And come and get me, and I'll take you on. And the girls were sort of twittering around them.
SPEAKER_01:And you spoke up in that environment. So, what was different in the lib?
SPEAKER_00:I told you before. Well, I didn't feel unsafe. Yeah, yeah. I was in a I was in a big public environment. I didn't feel unsafe.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:I did feel unsafe in the lib. Well, I didn't feel unsafe, or did I? Yeah, maybe I didn't. I just think I was blindsided. I was so surprised that someone would make a sexual comment to me so quickly.
SPEAKER_01:Was it was it was it because he was old?
SPEAKER_00:That what?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, you described him as an older man, and there's something even slightly insulting, you know, as if he'd really be punching above his weight if he was older, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The kids outside the building were young.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Much younger than my own children. I felt perfectly in my rights to say something to them. Plus, that was in a public place, it was fine.
SPEAKER_01:Could it have been something to do with, you know, what has been ingrained in us about respecting the older generation?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely not. Nothing to do with it. Okay. It's not that.
SPEAKER_01:You didn't humiliate him though when you I didn't do anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that's that is my point. I didn't do anything. Me, well versed in critical thinking, understands the way the brain works, you know, write books on women making good decisions, and yet I literally just stood there. And to I I bring it, I talk about that because in a lot of rape cases, what they say um when the prosecution, when the defense comes in to defend the perpetrator, they often say, Well, the woman did nothing. She did nothing, she didn't scream, she didn't do anything, she didn't say stop, she did absolutely nothing. Therefore, she was complicit in the act. And that's why the legislation around this is sort of changing, or they're trying to, because we know that what happens is the brain goes into fight, flight, and you go into freeze. You literally, and I reckon in a very small way, I went into freeze. My brain went, I I don't know what to do here. Um, so I'm just yeah, I just you just I went into freeze. In the bus, um a little bit the same. I certain did I certainly didn't go into fight on the bus because I it was such an unknown thing I was looking at, such an unknown quantity. I didn't go into fight and I didn't go into flight. I just went into, you know, sat there with this woman who came and sat next to me, and we both went to, well, we better stay on the bus until he gets off, which I guess is a version of freeze. So I think what happens is we get into these dangerous situations, right, that blindside us and we simply do nothing. And I think probably there is an instinctive, an instinctive response in us. So it's almost like we just become sort of like marsupials. And in the lift, I became like a friendly marsupial. I guess some part of my brain thought, what if he hits emergency stop and I'm stuck in here with the prick, right? Right? Um and I think we I think in a way we we need to respect that because society still is saying to women, you need to stay safe, you need to not, you know, wear clothing which is alluring and seductive, you need to not walk across the park at night, you need to make sure you're staying in a well-lit place. Well, the message is still around women trying to preserve themselves as opposed to how how about men start just not making inappropriate sexual comments and raping women? How about that as an option? And yet we're I think we're still on this trajectory, and what's going on in America doesn't help with this whole, you know, conservative tradwive thing, which of course, as we know, the church saying that men are in charge, the domestic violence in those environments is off the scale because men feel they can do anything. You know, it's really problematic and it really, really pissed me off. The whole thing really pissed me off because I thought, what why am I now in 2025, why am I still having to deal with this shit? So that's what I wanted to talk about today. And I think it's really important that for us to know that if you are in a situation like that, and you don't come back with the witty repartee, that you don't come back with the you know the the brilliant comeback comment. If you do just stand there like a big dork and do nothing, well that's perfectly fine. Because in some way that's us women just trying to survive.
SPEAKER_01:If you don't return serve, then there's no game.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You don't have that luxury on the bus when someone's actively at you, but and you don't have that luxury if you're being sexually assaulted.
SPEAKER_00:You would like to think you would, you know, you would like to think that you would be able to call out, cry, say no, do something, and yet so often we're just pushed into this position where we go into survival mode. So I guess the point is what we need is more men to say to other men, why don't you shut the fuck up and stop saying that it's not funny? Like that's not funny, right? Yeah, but how many men do in your experience, or how many men just let it go through to the keeper?
SPEAKER_01:What do you want me well you want me to give you a percentage?
SPEAKER_00:Pass my phone, please. No, not percentages, just anecdotal evidence to be fine. I'm a bit of an outlier.
SPEAKER_01:You know, in some groups when I pipe up, there's a lot of g blokes around the table who are probably thinking, yeah, I should have said that. So maybe I'm just a little bit earlier than the others. But no, I do know men of the sp you know, uh males of our species who are, by all intents and purposes, part of our community who would subscribe to belief systems and you know narratives around male dominance over women to some degree. You know, I mean there's nothing so extreme as, you know, trad wives or um none of us would tolerate domestic abuse. Um so you know, it's a i I guess a different level on the spectrum, you know, with the with the groups of men that I travel with. But yeah, look, I do you know, I definitely know it as a cultural thing where that you know there's the added level of we're not supposed to be joking about this sort of thing. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink as well. So, you know, it's uh it's the source of a of a whole lot of dopamine for unintellig no unemotionally intelligent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think we've got to be really, really careful about saying it's a madrim intelligence because there's plenty of men. I mean, just look at the medical industry here, the number of surgeons that are accused of shocking misogynistic behaviour, and they're highly intelligent.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sorry. It's cultural. I tried to insert the word emotionally in front of the intelligence. You were too slow. Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Um, anyway, it's really annoying, and I think we women have to understand that the change is coming, but it's really slow. And for every one of you out there that's listening, have a conversation with the men in your lives and just say it has to come from you. You are the beginning of the change in the narrative, not us. And just be careful who we vote for. You know, if we're going to vote in politicians that believe in some weird Christian doctrine where men are at the head of the households and women have to be compliant. I mean, wow, where is that going to hit us? You know, the whole anti-abortion thing, the whole thing is just so anti-women.
SPEAKER_01:To think that you can have control over any other demographic, you know, this idea that I believe in freedom, but not for everybody. Well, then you don't believe in freedom.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, we have to have I mean we've got control over our children, right? We have to have control over our children. I guess collaboration, though. What when you're an adult, when your children are small, you've got full control over them. But that which put brings me to men and women that men infantilize women by trying to have control over them. It's like they're children.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know. I would say that as early as possible, we collaborated with our children.
SPEAKER_00:We're magnificent parents, there's no two ways about it.
SPEAKER_01:You'd start with collaborating on the unimportant stuff like what would you like to have for dinner tonight? You know, then you'd graduate to where shall we have a holiday this year.
SPEAKER_00:But that's when they're older, when they're little, they're fully under your control.
SPEAKER_01:I'm talking about right from the start. There's a gradient. You know, right from the start, you collaborate with your children around the game you play and how long you play it for. Don't you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you sound disappointed. I don't know. I'm agreeing with you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, are you good? It's always good to agree with me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, look, I'm agreeing with you, and I'm saying that there's the opportunity for collaboration with anything, anyone, at any age, there's an opportunity to give and take. And this is the trouble with the absolutionist divestment of power rankings between men and women is that it's fixed, and it's just that's not life. And so I think that, you know, yes, if the if the if the neurosurgeons that are, you know, manhandling their just normal surgeons. Where'd you get neurosurgeon? Just surgeons.
SPEAKER_00:I was trying to think of it's actually probably ortho, it's probably orthopedics, let's face it.
SPEAKER_01:So yes, it's they're the most annoying. It's not that kind of intelligence, and I guess we can call it emotional intelligence, but you know, perhaps that capacity to be able to collaborate with other people and share power with the colour. It's cultural, isn't it? It's cultural. It's that's right.
SPEAKER_00:And we've got the culture has to be changed, but it has to start with men. I'm sick of hearing what I have to do differently. You know, my darling daughter walks home, she's in her late 20s now, walks home. She's a lawyer, so she's no dummy. She rings me on the way home. We talk about how many people are on the street and if there's lights. I mean, it's terrible. Right? No, it look, it is terrible. Yeah, but you never I mean, I won't now walk the track along the coast from DY to the headland, from DY to Kilka on my own. I'm still. And you can, but you can. You can just except for your knees. Because your knees are shot. Thanks. I could actually walk it quicker than you. It's not safe for me.
SPEAKER_01:And that's not right. Yeah. Look, uh, and w what can I do other than accompany you with my sore knees?
SPEAKER_00:But not quick enough. You're not quick enough. What? No, you're slow. You are you're really slow. In fact, if you had to defend me, I did think about ringing you.
SPEAKER_01:If I had I thought about ringing you.
SPEAKER_00:I thought when I was on the bus I should ring David and see if he can make it out of the unit in time to meet the bus, but then I thought on your bad knees hobbling down the stairs. Oh, come on. Hobbling down the stairs, it'd be a disappointing outcome. You're you're awful, Muriel. I know I am awful. So that's all I wanted to say. It's been a really annoying experience for me. Not your knees.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think uh all men, it's up to you. Not up to us, it's up to you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:We've had enough.
SPEAKER_01:All right. It's up to you. Challenge accepted.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:You and your mates. Scratch my back for a moment.
SPEAKER_00:No. I won't. What? What am I, a trad wife? How? Would you like me to cook you some brownies tonight?
SPEAKER_01:Listen, listen, Miss Queen of Primary Attribution Error.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I've been doing a lot of cooking lately.
SPEAKER_00:I know, you're not you're not included. You're not included in the in the horror story, David. You're an exception to the horror story.
SPEAKER_01:But I am sad that you can't walk along the beach. It's really sad.
SPEAKER_00:Although the last time I did them, the worst thing that happened to me was I got attacked by a magpie. I got bombed by a magpie.
SPEAKER_01:And I bet it was a male. I don't know what it was because. No, it's actually a female of the species. Because it's her nature.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know in Australia apart from the snakes and the spiders and just the variety of deadly insects like the iragangi up in northern Queensland, it's half the size of your jellyfish, not an insect. Yeah, but it it's half the size of your little finger, and if you get bitten by it, apparently you beg to die. We have some horrendous things.
SPEAKER_01:It's very painful, but now you're going to complain about the magpies.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, apart from the horrendous things that can kill us every time we walk out. I was doing the walk around the headland, and this thing bashed me on the back of the head. I turned around and it was a magpie. And once they start dive bombing you, they're relentless. And I was running and screaming. And then this, these, these, it is funny. And then these men came out of this that they were builders and they came out of this house and said, Are you all right? Are you okay? And I said, No, this bird is dive bombing me. And the guy got a hat and sort of made it go away, and that was it.
SPEAKER_01:And it was really embarrassing. I'm so glad you told that story though. Because as you told that story, I was thinking about what could you expect? You know, two guys. Came out and they were really nice. And they were really nice. Because most people are. And most men really are. You know, catch them on a bad day. Some are worse than others, and some people are just fairly dreadful all the time. And on that note, most men who came up to you downstairs.
SPEAKER_00:But I do think I had to corral them. I had to say to them you need to go down the steps first. Yeah. Anyway, on that note, let's not give ourselves a hard time about the fact that we sort of go into freeze in these situations. We're doing the best we can to survive. And as I just said, we are now passing the bat on to men. You guys need to sort it. So on that note, stay safe, stay well, keep your critical thinking hats on. See you later. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to Why Smart Women with me, Annie McCubbin. I hope today's episode has ignited your curiosity and left you feeling inspired by my anti-motivational style. Join me next time as we continue to unravel the fascinating layers of our brains and develop ways to sort out the fact from the fiction and the over 6,000 thoughts we have in the course of every day. Remember, intelligence isn't enough. You can be as smart as paint, but it's not just about what you know, it's about how you think. And in all this talk of whether or not you can trust your gut, if you ever feel unsafe, whether it's in the street, at work, car park, in a bar, or in your own home, please, please respect that gut feeling. Staying safe needs to be our primary objective. We can build better lives, but we have to stay safe to do that. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast, and share it with your fellow smart women and allies. Together we're hopefully reshaping the narrative around women and making better decisions. So until next time, stay sharp, stay savvy, and keep your critical thinking hat shiny. This is Annie McCubbin signing off from Why Smart Women. See you later. This episode was produced by Harrison Hess. It was executive produced and written by me, Annie McCubbin.
